Forums / Games / Halo: The Master Chief Collection (PC)

Reach - Season Pass Does not Feel Rewarding

OP Delta5931

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Lord Vipes wrote:
BANGHART wrote:
I dont understand the points system. Why have points if the unlocks are linear? why not just unlock them automatically? How did nobody on the dev team notice this and point this out? or are they trying to shoehorn in some type of microtransactions or what?
It's because they plan to have multiple seasons, and seasons don't get removed like in most games.
meaning that, after a season ends, progression now starts to unlock for a new season, regardless if you finished through the prior season and still have more to unlock. Or will you have to finish each season to get to the next? Id like to know If I should be saving these points or just spend them?
BANGHART wrote:
Lord Vipes wrote:
BANGHART wrote:
I dont understand the points system. Why have points if the unlocks are linear? why not just unlock them automatically? How did nobody on the dev team notice this and point this out? or are they trying to shoehorn in some type of microtransactions or what?
It's because they plan to have multiple seasons, and seasons don't get removed like in most games.
meaning that, after a season ends, progression now starts to unlock for a new season, regardless if you finished through the prior season and still have more to unlock. Or will you have to finish each season to get to the next? Id like to know If I should be saving these points or just spend them?
You can spend freely, but in seasons you have to follow a path. If you don't like one season, you can spend in another.
Delta5931 wrote:
This new system feels like a massive step backward from Halo Reach's original unlock system. We have an entire tier devoted to just helmets (with a Firefight voice and Elite Armor randomly thrown in), the next tier devoted to just shoulder pieces, the next tier to just chestpieces.

This system feels awful because it's taken all player choice and thrown it out the window. Unlocks are now strictly dictated and deviating from that path is impossible. The ODST helmet, which was previously an early unlock in the original Reach, is now locked to Tier 3's ending unlock. EXP gain also feels extremely slow, with two hours of game time bringing me to only the Recon (I think third or fourth) unlock on the First Tier. EXP also can't be gained from playing Custom games or Campagin, so the incentive to replay those modes is largely shot. I remember playing those for hours before I had Xbox Live to unlock new armor pieces because they looked cool.

I get that 343 is trying to find a new form of monetization for Halo Infinite, now that lootboxes are basically vilified by the public, but this just feels... Wrong, for Reach.

Now that we have experience with this system, I'm curious to see what the community thinks. Yay or nay?
Here's an idea for monetization:
Make a complete game, with unlockables through gameplay
Never add microtransactions
Never add lootboxes
Never add FOMO -Yoink-.

There's a REASON everyone liked Halo Reach and it wasn't the motion blurred 20FPS gameplay,
So hold up. Let me see if I understand this correctly. Are they planning on making us pay to re-open seasons that have finished but still have stuff to unlock? If that’s the case, why? They know that players will absolutely loath that and will more than probably riot as people are already unhappy with the new system as it is. If that’s not the case, then why are people making it sound like it’s going to be this way? I mean yeah this new progression system is crap compared to the old one in a more ways than one, but smearing it that way certainly doesn’t help make it better. Quite the opposite really.
Delta5931 wrote:
Chimera30 wrote:
Earning seasonal XP is disabled in modes that don’t put you on a dedicated server. This is to prevent people from unlocking items through modding, hacking, or exploits. 343 wants people to actually play to unlock things. In the 360 version of reach, people would use offline exploits in customs to unlock everything; 343 wants to avoid this.

And it’s not bad. Use this system to play around with different looks until you can finally build the look you truly want. The progression should take a backseat to the gameplay, anyway. If you don’t find the game fun and are only playing to unlock stuff, then I’m not sure any style of progression would be satisfactory.
Oh, I totally understand the first part. Still, it's just cosmetics, and I think there may be ways for 343 to give out Experience if playing official modes in Customs. If the server detects modifications to the modes, either half EXP or no EXP. Campaign could have fixed EXP associated with it, or achievement EXP so we have a reason to do the harder ones other than for personal enjoyment. I mean, even with the current system, people will find a way to abuse it, which is a shame.

As for the second part... I'm not feeling it. Some of these unlocks are just so far away from the start they feel ludicrous. I mean, I won't get a chestpiece until at least ten hours of game time. This system is too linear, and the stuff I want is too far away. I wouldn't have minded if every unlock was associated with a "set," where the first unlock for Tier 1 is Mark V B HUL, FJ/PARA Shoulders and HP/HALO chestpiece. This way, players are able to customize their character beyond just their helmet in the first Tier. I honestly feel like this system is pushing me away from the game because it feels like no genuine progress is being made or the progress is far too slow for it to be made.
Ten hours? Try thirty. Remember that while EXP doesn't increase, level requirements increase exponentially
Not sure if it has been mentioned but the biggest issue with the leveling system is that it encourages deathmatching in objective game modes since the only things that give xp are medals and Reach doesn't have objective medals. The game needs to take into account your performance in doing the actual objective, or at the very least double the xp gain if you win the match to encourage people to actually do the objective.
Delta5931 wrote:
This new system feels like a massive step backward from Halo Reach's original unlock system. We have an entire tier devoted to just helmets (with a Firefight voice and Elite Armor randomly thrown in), the next tier devoted to just shoulder pieces, the next tier to just chestpieces.

This system feels awful because it's taken all player choice and thrown it out the window. Unlocks are now strictly dictated and deviating from that path is impossible. The ODST helmet, which was previously an early unlock in the original Reach, is now locked to Tier 3's ending unlock. EXP gain also feels extremely slow, with two hours of game time bringing me to only the Recon (I think third or fourth) unlock on the First Tier. EXP also can't be gained from playing Custom games or Campagin, so the incentive to replay those modes is largely shot. I remember playing those for hours before I had Xbox Live to unlock new armor pieces because they looked cool.

I get that 343 is trying to find a new form of monetization for Halo Infinite, now that lootboxes are basically vilified by the public, but this just feels... Wrong, for Reach.

Now that we have experience with this system, I'm curious to see what the community thinks. Yay or nay?
The ODST helmet is unlocked as Tier 19 aka penultimate to Category 2, not 3.

Yay, by the way.
I like this progression system, but I do miss being able to save up credits to buy what you want like old Reach. Now everyone gets the same thing.
But similar things have happened in the past. Remember when you had to do all the Vidmaster achievements to get recon? They gave it to everyone for free and Hayabusa became the hardest to get.
Nobody could get Eternal after Bungie handed Halo over, and now (given you play to the end of season 1) you can just get it. That's fine though.
What I have a problem with is the XP cap. 8000 xp max for performance and teamwork (not sure about match xp) means if you come 3rd and have a lot of medals you're essentially leveling up the same as the guy who's 1st. More inclusive? Probably. But I feel like the more effort I put into a game the less I'm rewarded.

Bungie had online total xp caps and lower offline total xp caps to stop offline users to idle in forge and get massive xp, and they had xp gain in campaign and custom games. Not as much, but it was still there. I hope 343 figures out a way to implement this again.

OP you need better things to complain about. 2 hours is nothing.
Anyone defending this system over the original system is honestly a clown.
Anyone defending this system over the original system is honestly a clown.
Couldn't agree more
Chimera30 wrote:
Earning seasonal XP is disabled in modes that don’t put you on a dedicated server. This is to prevent people from unlocking items through modding, hacking, or exploits. 343 wants people to actually play to unlock things. In the 360 version of reach, people would use offline exploits in customs to unlock everything; 343 wants to avoid this.

As for the way the progression is handled, part of it is likely inspired by research into player engagement and retention. Since gamers these days seem so fixated on unlocking things in games, the season is designed to keep players going for the entire season. I’m guessing 343 thought that the cR system today would lead to people stopping playing after they unlocked what they wanted through picking & choosing. Personally, I would have preferred if all the customization options were unlocked from the getgo, but since people had to have some sort of progression system, here we are. And it’s not bad. Use this system to play around with different looks until you can finally build the look you truly want. The progression should take a backseat to the gameplay, anyway. If you don’t find the game fun and are only playing to unlock stuff, then I’m not sure any style of progression would be satisfactory.
I want to unlock WHAT I WANT, not what the game allows me to unlock. OG Reach certainly required a particular rank time to time, but at least I could unlock what I actually want, not to mentiom that the UI for customization is completely awful, the fact that I can only preview, for example, a helmet by clicking said helmet instead of just hovering the mouse on its name is beyond me, I guess the technology isn't there yet? Small indie company? It's clear that the game was rushed to meet a deadline.
Linear progression SUCKS
Ki11s0n3 wrote:
Delta5931 wrote:
Ki11s0n3 wrote:
So you completed 3 to 4 out of what 10 tiers with only 2 hours of gameplay? That's not slow. Far from it. The original Reach was slow this moves relatively quickly. This first season is mainly just the original Reach unlocks. Next season they'll be adding in more stuff. Yes it sucks we don't even get a little bit of XP from the campaign, but even as you've proven just by casually playing anyone will be able to get everything by seasons end. There's also plenty of reason to go back to the campaign. Achievements and you really shouldn't be able to get XP from custom games cause then people could just cheese the system and get all the unlocks within a couple hours.

I don't think you remember the original too well if you think the unlocks there were fast and you think this is slow.
I got three unlocks from two hours of game time
It'll take me at least 6 or more to get one set of shoulder pads, and far longer to get one chest piece. The issue isnt the speed, it's that the rather expansive customization options have been completely neutered in favor of a linear system that railroads you into having things you both do not want nor desire. At least with the original Reach, you had options for Chestpieces and Shoulders within two hours of game time, or even less.

The achievements dont give me EXP. Why should I do them if my only reward is the achievement? This wasnt an issue in the original Reach, because that had EXP gain for Customs, Firefight Customs and Campaign.

I'm not saying the original was fast (though I could get more customization options faster than I can here), I'm saying it's more rewarding in terms of player choice. I feel more in control of my unlocks in original Reach than in MCC Reach.
If you got 3 unlocks in 2 hours then you're the problem not the game. I played one match of invasion and got 2 points to spend and my second game I got another. That was 3 unlocks in less than probably 20 minutes and no in the original you did not have this huge amount of customization within 2 hours. within 2 hours sure you had maybe a helmet and a shoulder pad and that's about it. You obviously haven't played the game in a while cause unlocks were tied to your in game rank as well. You had to be a certain rank to unlock certain stuff just like with the MCC except it's faster in the MCC whether you want to believe it is or not.
Lmfao unless you were rank 1 thats complete -Yoink-. The most I can get in one game is like 16-17k on a great game and that is not enough for two tiers not even one.
What was the point of linking my account if none of my progress carried over.

I already unlocked my Spartan's armor ten years ago, now I have to do it again but even slower and with more needless junk I'm never going to wear?!?

I earned that Pilot Helmet the first time, now I might as well just tape-down the right thumbstick and leave the system running for a few weeks to unlock everything.
WerepyreND wrote:
There shouldn't even be an unlock system in a game this old but that's just me. I already did the "work" almost a decade ago, re-releases should be celebrating the original game by having all content unlocked from the start.

Remember when you used to come back to play a game every day because you enjoyed it and not just to fill out an arbitrary checklist? I mean it is always going to be gross adding additional monetization like a BP on top of a premium product, but at least someone benefits from it under normal circumstances. Slapping a BP system it on to MCC is just adding on time wasting elements for the sake of it

The whole thing reeks of a dry run for Infinite's micro-transactions....
Ah, a man of culture.
Unfortunately "play video games because they are fun" is a point that's lost on this generation.
WerepyreND wrote:
There shouldn't even be an unlock system in a game this old but that's just me. I already did the "work" almost a decade ago, re-releases should be celebrating the original game by having all content unlocked from the start.

Remember when you used to come back to play a game every day because you enjoyed it and not just to fill out an arbitrary checklist? I mean it is always going to be gross adding additional monetization like a BP on top of a premium product, but at least someone benefits from it under normal circumstances. Slapping a BP system it on to MCC is just adding on time wasting elements for the sake of it

The whole thing reeks of a dry run for Infinite's micro-transactions....
Ah, a man of culture.
Unfortunately "play video games because they are fun" is a point that's lost on this generation.
Yee
So all these current rewards we are grinding for are just for season 1 correct?
and for season 2 there will be a whole new set of rewards?
Chimera30 wrote:
Use this system to play around with different looks until you can finally build the look you truly want.
I have my setup. And you're right about player retention. If I want my armor back, I'm going to have to play all through the season to grab my Pilot helmet, before heading into Campaign because there's no incentive for me there personally (aside from achievements and just generally enjoying the game). I've already beat the campaign before, I don't feel the need to go back until my armor is back to how it was on X360.
So all these current rewards we are grinding for are just for season 1 correct?
and for season 2 there will be a whole new set of rewards?
I suspect 343 didn't think the season system through at all. Reach is the new game, so they can get away with forcing everyone to unlock armor for it.
But CE doesn't have armor customization, neither does 2. 2:A, 3 and 4 all already have every armor available to choose from. ODST doesn't include firefight so they can't make people unlock characters for that either.
So really they built a system that only works for one game, and then proceeded to use all available content in the first season. Their options now are either take away all the armor from 2:A, 3 and 4 to make us work to get it back, which would be highly unpopular for anyone who's been playing for any amount of time, or just fill the future seasons with nameplates. Wooo....
And before someone brings up adding new armor, they won't because
1. Effort
and
2. The .map system halo uses requiring every single asset available on a map to be pre-baked into it.
I think by this point its pretty apparent to everyone that the season system is a joke, was a waste of development time, and caused more problems than it solved.
I think than no one of the system is perfect.

The old system let you get some items faster because they are cheap and didn't requiere a night level and with the challenges you can get exp on any mode (Even custom games) but you need the challenge. But at the end some items need like 2.500.000 Cr or more.

This new system seems like is easy to unlock everything, but, you can't choose what do you want to unlock and in my case (I like the cheap armor) is a bit annoying. This system can be upgraded, for example : Each season has like 10 levels, each level has 10 items , when you unlock 3 items on the 1º level you can unlock one item from the 2º level and if you unlock all the first tier you can unlock any item from the second tier without restriction, just using season tokens. I don't know is just an example.

So all these current rewards we are grinding for are just for season 1 correct?
and for season 2 there will be a whole new set of rewards?
2. The .map system halo uses requiring every single asset available on a map to be pre-baked into it.
I think by this point its pretty apparent to everyone that the season system is a joke, was a waste of development time, and caused more problems than it solved.
You mean that they can't add new items to Halo reach ?
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