I just wanted to say that I still think Reach should just apply the TU settings universally, wholesale.

Never was a feature universally hated like Bloom. Some people don't mind a little bit, some people hate it all, but nobody minds a bit less.

I'm glad the TU settings are the default for most of the game, but I dislike that they're being taken off for Ranked Invasion, regular infection, and Grifball. It's like learning to use weapons differently just for these modes, and then learning it again when you want to do something else.

TU settings should be universal.
For grifball it's not like it changes anything at all. On the others that is another can of worms altogether.
I just wanted to say that I still think Reach should just apply the TU settings universally, wholesale.

Never was a feature universally hated like Bloom. Some people don't mind a little bit, some people hate it all, but nobody minds a bit less.

I'm glad the TU settings are the default for most of the game, but I dislike that they're being taken off for Ranked Invasion, regular infection, and Grifball. It's like learning to use weapons differently just for these modes, and then learning it again when you want to do something else.

TU settings should be universal.
Pretty sure besides Grifball (which isn't affected by anything in the TU), Invasion is the only thing that doesn't have it. Which yeah it should. This shouldn't even be up for discussion. Makes the game 100% better. I will never understand why 343 didn't do that originally in Reach.
343 did force the update on everyone originally, but after the outcry and doing community voting by offering updated and classic on the same map for comparison of their popularity they kept classic around. Good thing too, because most people didn't like the update. Super Slayer, the TU Team Slayer Playlist, always had a lower player count than regular, unupdated Team Slayer. Just looking at current stats Classic Playlists have a higher player count that TU ones, and while classic Team Slayer got a population Super Slayer is completely dead.

I sure hope 343 reconsiders using TU entirely, because after I heard that my excitement for Reach in the MCC died. Back in the day people voted against TU, the people still playing choose classic over TU, so I am really confused where the notion that TU is wanted came from. Probably the same minority that got TU made in the first place.
john11905 wrote:
343 did force the update on everyone originally, but after the outcry and doing community voting by offering updated and classic on the same map for comparison of their popularity they kept classic around. Good thing too, because most people didn't like the update. Super Slayer, the TU Team Slayer Playlist, always had a lower player count than regular, unupdated Team Slayer. Just looking at current stats Classic Playlists have a higher player count that TU ones, and while classic Team Slayer got a population Super Slayer is completely dead.
Team Slayer is popular by default. You can't compare its population to newly introduced playlists, because players automatically gravitate towards the familiar.

I sure hope 343 reconsiders using TU entirely, because after I heard that my excitement for Reach in the MCC died. Back in the day people voted against TU, the people still playing choose classic over TU, so I am really confused where the notion that TU is wanted came from. Probably the same minority that got TU made in the first place.The people who play Reach to this day are of course the diehard fans of the game, so it's understandable that they might like vanilla Reach and be opposed to change. However, the opinions of this niche minority aren't necessarily representative of the preferences of the larger Halo community. You'd have to have lived under a rock to not know that bloom is not a very well-liked mechanic at all.
tsassi wrote:
john11905 wrote:
343 did force the update on everyone originally, but after the outcry and doing community voting by offering updated and classic on the same map for comparison of their popularity they kept classic around. Good thing too, because most people didn't like the update. Super Slayer, the TU Team Slayer Playlist, always had a lower player count than regular, unupdated Team Slayer. Just looking at current stats Classic Playlists have a higher player count that TU ones, and while classic Team Slayer got a population Super Slayer is completely dead.
Team Slayer is popular by default. You can't compare its population to newly introduced playlists, because players automatically gravitate towards the familiar.

The people who play Reach to this day are of course the diehard fans of the game, so it's understandable that they might like vanilla Reach and be opposed to change. However, the opinions of this niche minority aren't necessarily representative of the preferences of the larger Halo community. You'd have to have lived under a rock to not know that bloom is not a very well-liked mechanic at all.
Sure Team Slayer might have an advantage as a default playlist, but that ignores the fact that it *was* updated, the player base cried out, and then there was a direct face of between TU and classic in game. And then after 343 saw that TU wasn't as popular as the vocal proponents of change made it out to be made the decision to split classic and TU. And then, back when Reach was still popular, Team Slayer significantly outperformed TU slayer in the playercounts. It wasn't as if 343 said why don't you try the update to see if you like it, they dialed it back after backlash.

The way things played out back in the day shows that the people wanting TU were in the minority. Otherwise all of Reach would have just gotten the TU and that would be the end of the story. It doesn't surprise me that the people who complain moved away, even after the changes they advocated got implemented, because they're the ones that can't be made happy in the first place. I don't see why the game needs to be catered to the people who complain the loudest, as they are the ones who will move on the fastest anyway.

And yes, TU addressed many of the complaints people had, such as bloom, shield bleed through, and armor lock. Of those I can only really agree with the last one, as bloom allows the player to choose how accurate they want their weapon to be as a mechanic. Take the Needle Rifle in Classic, if you rapid fire more than 4 shots it becomes much more inaccurate punishing spam at long range while allowing for a risk calculation about the fire rate at medium range. In TU the bloom completely resets allowing for pinpoint rapid fire ruining the experience. If TU were to be applied to Invasion that would severely impact balance, since NR could be used to completely suppress the spawns.
Shield bleed through is an ok change, it makes Reach more like the older Halo's, but having to decide whether to risk a charge to melee/run/engage normally was an interesting factor even if there are a lot of people just charging for a double melee.
Nerfing Armor Lock was the best change in the TU IMO, but even before that there were strategies to punish it's use. The most annoying thing is it just grinding the gameplay to a halt which never really got fixed in any case.

Just to reiterate, while the views expressed in the last paragraph are just my personal opinions, the fact remains that back when Reach was popular and the TU was implemented the TU was very unpopular with the people who played the game.
I don't have numbers, but from both what I remember back in the day and the reactions I saw after the last community update on the stream, reddit, this forum, etc. I can say that the TU was something people really wanted to be in. I can understand that not everyone may like it, but to say that it is the majority of players is a little... surprising?

What I'm curious about is why they're not applying it in invasion too to keep consistency among playlists. I guess they could just change it in case players don't like it at all.
Didn't really see much of any reaction to TU being the default being mentioned in the update except about it not being universally applied. But I can say that while it did seem like a popular choice back in the day, it wasn't accepted by the player base at large. Which is why it became that weird hybrid system instead of universally applied, because TU was universal for a little bit before the backlash. Seems like people forget what lead to the compromise that's still in the game. TU causes some massive changes to the sandbox without rebalancing other aspects and a lot of people did not like that. For example after the TU the Focus Rifle was practically useless since precision weapons could now counter at pretty much any range.

As I've mentioned earlier, the TU changes would absolutely destroy Invasion balance. Having 0 bloom NR would lock Spartan spawn down completely on Spire and reduced bloom DMR would make the spawn killing of Elites on Boneyard an even bigger problem since then bloom won't be an issue at that range. TU caused massive changes to the sandbox, and invasion is already precariously balanced thanks to it's asymmetric nature.
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Lol. Bad bait.
Sorry friend, no turkish.
One thing you gotta consider is how late in the life cycle of Halo: Reach the TU came out and that those that truley wanted those feature didn`t bother waiting for it or cared about going to the forums and voting or crying out in support for it (which renders the statement "the player base cried out" mute) because the population and community were just husks of their former selves at that point. Directly in part of the dwindleing community the minority voice(i.e. Reach came out of the box perfect and exactly how bungie intended to run) became the majority because they decided to stick it out and show their support through playing the game and in the end of the day only the most extreme fans that followed this thought became the only people left playing. Which is why after the whole debacle with the TU settings being split between playlist most people started getting tired of the mixed signals 343 was throwing around the place because they wanted to try and please 100% of the then starving population, so they left to other games, either back to Halo 3 or whatever new game was out of the time.

TLDR: the TU was actually what the game needed at launch but it came out way too late to win back a precentage of its original population /Bloom was a nice idea but an inconsistent mechanic, /and I 300% agree with the current playlist being TU across the board except to the game modes that relied on the OG balances to make a fun experience(Invasion.....idk about flood or griffball never got into it too much.)_
Yeah i could live without bloom. Back in the day i didn’t notice it as much of a problem. Now though i think it will bother me much more.
I don't mind bloom I don't get why people hate it so much.
Bloom is perfectly fine imo and keeps the DMR and NR in line with other weapons. The only TU change I'm really behind would be the armor lock Nerf other than that I would prefer no TU settings applied (which is why I will spend most my time in invasion)
My excitement took a serious hit when I heard on stream that they're going with the TU settings for matchmaking. Timing my shots appropriately for the given situation while doing my best to aim for the head was exciting and rewarding. It's an experience that has been sorely missed from H4 and H5. In fact, the lack of bloom for precision weapons is my largest complaint with 343's sandbox design with H4 and H5.
For all the people who hate the TU settings... I'll tell you what you told the competitive crowd back when Reach first came out.. ADAPT.
The difference is that the competitive crowd was trying to permanently change a game that we all loved. And now 343 HAS permanently changed a game that we all loved. It's not a matter of "adapting," but a matter of the fact that I want "Halo: Reach" on PC and not "Halo: Reach TU settings" instead.
  1. TU would mess up the balance of Invasion in a number of areas. TU settings need to stay away from that playlist.
  2. There is no reason why Grifball needs to use TU settings. It's Grifball.
  3. They said they might flight Infection with TU settings. The reason it hasn't been decided yet is that TU would change the way people play Infection on Halo: Reach. TU settings disable Sword Blocking, which is a common tactic among survivors who get overwhelmed (especially when they run out of ammo). TU settings also reduce bloom, which can make the Magnum even more deadly against the infected. I'm not sure we need that.
They're making sure they handle this as carefully as possible. If only a couple of modes don't have TU settings, it's for a good reason.
I am beyond excited that they went with TU settings for the extreme majority for the game modes, and what makes me EVEN HAPPIER is that reach ranked hardcore has no bloom no sprint settings, that was make or break for this game for the competitive side of things, and they made the perfect decision.