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+1 OP. BTB objective is just plain not fun on PC right now, it's just crossmap click-on-heads or get your head clicked on crossmap. I queued CTF not Snipers, 343 pls fix.
I think the game would be more fun if the DMR was removed entirely. at the very least they should reduce the damage by half to address the absurdly fast kill times and virtually unlimited ammo.
Important notice!I am not advocating for any weapon stat changes (damage, range ect). The only thing I want is to make DMR start a toggleable option in matchmaking. DMR start was not as prevalent in old Reach as it is today. In my opinion DMR start is a bad standard mode for social games (mostly team slayer/objectives/BTB) and here is why.

The Designated Marksman RifleDMR is a very “noob friendly” weapon that excels at all ranges; close, medium, long, and extreme (across the map), and is also very effective against vehicles. The previous “iterations” of this weapon has never been AS powerful overall. Halo CE Pistol is very powerful, but it has a much higher skill ceiling at most ranges, especially extreme range (shot leading ect), and other weapons like the AR and the plasma rifle can compete with, if not counter it at close range. The Halo 2 Battle Rifle is also an extremely powerful weapon, but at extreme ranges it is not as effective as the DMR and there are non-power weapons that can compete with it at close range.

Given how vehicles work in Halo CE the Pistol is not as effective against them unless you aim at the driver (It can be very wasteful otherwise). The driver can then move into cover to regen his shield. The same goes for Halo 2 where Battle Rifle is not very effective against most vehicles (Good luck shooting down a banshee with it). In Reach this is not the case. With the DMR you don’t really need to aim at the driver for it to be extremely effective and moving into cover isn’t as effective for the driver because of Reach vehicle health. Two people with the DMR can melt a banshee in seconds. If the banshee survives the initial encounter it is left in a very damage state with no possible recovery. Then some guy who just spawned can pick it off across the map with his DMR. In DMR starts this happens very often to the point it hurts the vehicle combat part of Halo. Overall the DMR starts give you less incentive to use vehicles and to know about power weapon spawns. With everybody having DMRs at the start it is often just too dangerous to stick your head out and head for power weapons and vehicles. I have been to many objective games/BTB where most players are just “plinking” at each other with DMRs across the map for the whole match. Not even Halo CE Blood Gulch had that problem.

The “leveling the playing field” argument:A lot of people argue that non-DMR starts such as AR/Pistol will have one good team controlling power weapons/DMRs who will then proceed to trash the other team. The thing is that this has always been a part of Halo. A good team with knowledge of the power weapon spawns ect will win against a worse team. Also, a very important point is that a good map will have several DMRs/Battle rifles spawning on each side of the map. This has been the case in Halo 2 and 3. It is very hard for a team to control all DMR spawns and power weapon spawns at the same time for a considerable amount of time, especially with vehicles on the map. A good map “levels the playing field” on its own.

TO CLARIFY AGAIN: I do not want to remove DMR start from the game or change any weapon stats. I like using the DMR, but I think AR/pistol starts makes for better gameplay in most cases. I only want 343 Industries to give us more matchmaking options
Wholeheartedly agree. Also, to your point on “leveling the playing field,” I would like to point out that on most of the normal 4v4 maps, you can 5 shot anybody with a magnum at anytime when you’re playing AR starts. AR starts forces people to either get better primary weapons in the field of play OR stick to close range combat.
Agreed, The DMR is really powerful and especially on start. I think it should be common around the map and have a quick respawn time and maybe start with the assault rifle.
I go to rank and its DMR without bloom. I go to regular playlist its DMR with bloom. Vehicles have 0 utility and game modes like neutral bomb are basically impossible to play because of the long range power. no point in actively going for power weapons because i can get a sniper that a 2 shot kill or use a DMR that's a 4 shot kill. I hope the developers are reading this thread and are able to fix a very common and high quantity complaint on this thread.
It's honestly hilarious that some of the people in here vouching for DMR are trying to claim that by asking to bring the AR back we must be new to Halo? I think you got it backwards my dude... Halo has NEVER had anything but AR or SMG starts. Idk who you're trying to fool. DMR/BR starts were only introduced later on... tho honestly I can't remember what was default in BTB -- I think it might've been the BR? Which btw the BR is a very very different weapon than the DMR. The BR actually had an effective true medium range because of bullet spread, whereas DMR is a Sniper-lite. Halo has ALWAYS been about map control. Has ALWAYS been about beat down fests and ridiculous weaponry. NEVER about "load-outs" or spawning with something good in your hands. If you lose map control and your get your face kicked in then it looks like you lost my dude, good luck next time. By forcing ALL playlists to have DMR starts they're changing the game for the worst. You never run out of ammo, you never have to look for guns, you can beat a sniper with it, you can beat anything with it, you can even 3-shot someone and beat them down. STARFOX: "ALL RANGE MODE!" Starting with it is busted and just makes the whole game moot. Hot take: It's also not hard to shoot people in the head... Dudes, all we're asking 343 is to bring back HALO. The default, real and true Halo experience. Keep DMR in its own playlist where it belongs. (biiiiiiiig shrug!)
As much as I would prefer less precision weapon starts, what you said above (bolded) is not true. Tons of variants going back to the days of CE have always has pistol starts. It's about variety, people, not a hard line philosophy. Give me some DMR starts, as well as some pistol/AR starts with more focus on map control.
Well honestly I haven't played H1 Slayer since literally Nam, so I'll take your word for it about the pistol spawns-- but you did say variants! DMR start is a variant. "DMR Slayer" It's not classic slayer, and it should not be the default setting, especially in every playlist as it currently is.
MachoSuave wrote:
+1 OP. BTB objective is just plain not fun on PC right now, it's just crossmap click-on-heads or get your head clicked on crossmap. I queued CTF not Snipers, 343 pls fix.
Legit laughed on the last part. The few times I played BTB were sniper plinkfests as well.
Played a BtB CTF on hemorrhage, and for the full duration of the match, neither side was able to even get close to capturing another's flag. Remember the old strat of using a warthog to ferry a buddy across the map, get the flag, and drive back to base? Yup, that doesn't work at all anymore because players just get shot out of the driver, gunner, and passenger positions well out of range of the gunner.

Anytime either side made an attempt to capture, it failed horribly, turning into a turtle match until the timer ended.

Even on smaller maps, take high noon for example, everyone just skirts around the edges. A huge swath of the map is an effective "no man's land." It's like every game mode, short of a few action sack modes, infection, and griffball, is team swat but with shields. Some maps are "okay", such as those with tight corridors that prohibit most long range shooting, therefor giving other weapons more purpose(it's so satisfying when I can actually use plasma weapons effectively again), but they are an exception rather than a standard.

The game has a CoD meta now as there's very little emphasis on map control, and more on who lands the first shot. You no longer need to scour the map and fight over good loadouts, can no longer make aggressive pushes once assets are secured; this is built for some audience who don't/didn't like Halo for what it was, but wanted to turn it into something it was never meant to be.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making posts that do not contribute to the topic at hand.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
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Never in my life have i posted on a forum, but I find that the DMR starts are just not balanced on PC. The precise aim that k/m players have with the DMR makes other weapons feel useless. Something needs to change. I love halo and i really enjoy playing Reach on PC, but it needs better balancing due to the precise aim that comes with keyboard and mouse.
Can we just lock this thread?
This is a legitimate issue with the game and is, at the same time, feedback. Locking this thread would just start another. As far as I can see the overwhelming majority of people agree with OP so locking would just show that 343 doesn't care about player feedback. So far I haven't seen a single real argument against this, especially since there already are plenty of DMR-dominated gamemodes(hello Team Hardcore). DMR starts break the maps and considering that 75% of weapons simply are not used because of it, DMR starts also break the balance of the game, and by definition disrupt the way the game/games were meant to be played. If someone truly doesn't enjoy any other gun besides the DMR by all means, they can go in Team Hardcore or SWAT, nobody is stopping them, (even though playing a game for a single gun is pretty ridiculous) but the "competitive" people need to understand that this is not only pushing people away from not buying the game, but it's also pushing current players away. There are modes for DMR fests already in, Halo's core gameplay shouldn't be muddied by this powerweapon being in the hands of every player as soon as they spawn.
Agree, I posted yesterday how it makes big team way to hectic because you have 16 people all running around with dmrs. Snipers everywhere basically
On this note I had a match on Reach's "Blood Gulch" variant and I couldn't even get the Wraith or Ghost to the enemy spawn because the sides were lined with 3-6 people with DMR's or power weapons. It's the same with the spawns, you spawn you try to move, but when you move you start getting shot by about 1-4 DMR's so you can't even move on that map due to the lack of cover.
I like DMRs being the default for competitive. I think that's great. I just don't think it should be the default in all the team matches every time. Social Matchmaking is supposed to be having fun and using all the weapons and vehicles in the sandbox. DMR start make those options essentially invalid. I don't want the Competitive changed, and I don't want DMR starts taken away entirely out of Social Matchmaking. I just want AR/Pistol starts to be a lot more common in the Social games than they are now - for the reasons stated by OP.
I have been playing with a group of 8 - 10, most of us have been casual Halo players from the beginning. We played from Halo CE to Halo Reach. MCC coming to PC has been a pretty big deal for all of us and has brought us all back together to play Halo after just about 10 years. Though after a couple of days we all were getting the feeling that there was something off with Reach, and not how we remembered Halo to be.
It wasn’t until we actually got to play AR+Magnum in matchmaking by chance that we simultaneously remembered what Halo was all about. Running around with AR+Magnums, finding power weapons like DMR and shotguns, or beating an enemy that has a more powerful weapon and taking it for yourself. Making use of everything on the map. Having to move up to the enemy before engaging instead of just turning 90% of a large map into no mans land.
In probably just under 20 hours of gameplay we have only gotten to play AR+Magnums TWICE and figured that this is just what Halo has become. Though I am relieved to visit these forums to see that mostly everyone seems to agree that DRM only playlists isn’t good for Halo. Maybe this means we might actually see a change in the frequency of AR games. They are especially needed in Objective style games. I am unfamiliar with how the developers respond to the community, if any one has any insight on this I am eager to know.

Just as a side note to comment on all of these arguments oriented on what weapons variations require more skill. My group of 8 - 10 friends, we have adapted to the DRM playstyle that is required to be competitive enough to win %50 of our games give or take. We aren’t “bad” and are just looking for a fix for that. We aren’t worried about how much easier or harder the game might become if DMRs games load in less often. We care more about what's FUN in a Halo game, and are worried about losing players in our group because of how stale DMR all day every day is getting to be.

I could easily see almost all of us putting this game down much sooner than expected if DMR games continue to dominate Matchmaking, which might statistically say something about the health of the casual player base in social Matchmaking if only 2 or 3 players out of 10 keep this in their gaming rotation.
Moosease wrote:
I have been playing with a group of 8 - 10, most of us have been casual Halo players from the beginning. We played from Halo CE to Halo Reach. MCC coming to PC has been a pretty big deal for all of us and has brought us all back together to play Halo after just about 10 years. Though after a couple of days we all were getting the feeling that there was something off with Reach, and not how we remembered Halo to be.
It wasn’t until we actually got to play AR+Magnum in matchmaking by chance that we simultaneously remembered what Halo was all about. Running around with AR+Magnums, finding power weapons like DMR and shotguns, or beating an enemy that has a more powerful weapon and taking it for yourself. Making use of everything on the map. Having to move up to the enemy before engaging instead of just turning 90% of a large map into no mans land.
In probably just under 20 hours of gameplay we have only gotten to play AR+Magnums TWICE and figured that this is just what Halo has become. Though I am relieved to visit these forums to see that mostly everyone seems to agree that DRM only playlists isn’t good for Halo. Maybe this means we might actually see a change in the frequency of AR games. They are especially needed in Objective style games. I am unfamiliar with how the developers respond to the community, if any one has any insight on this I am eager to know.

Just as a side note to comment on all of these arguments oriented on what weapons variations require more skill. My group of 8 - 10 friends, we have adapted to the DRM playstyle that is required to be competitive enough to win %50 of our games give or take. We aren’t “bad” and are just looking for a fix for that. We aren’t worried about how much easier or harder the game might become if DMRs games load in less often. We care more about what's FUN in a Halo game, and are worried about losing players in our group because of how stale DMR all day every day is getting to be.

I could easily see almost all of us putting this game down much sooner than expected if DMR games continue to dominate Matchmaking, which might statistically say something about the health of the casual player base in social Matchmaking if only 2 or 3 players out of 10 keep this in their gaming rotation.
First of all, I'd like to point out that there are several responses on page 8 of this thread that are SO amazingly righteous. I've been following this thing hardcore because of how adamant I am about the issue. Choosing to respond to your comment because it speaks to me even more. I'm in the exact same boat. My good friends and I are returning to Halo with GLEE after having met on Halo 2 back in the day only to find that it's NOTHING like we recall. Beyond what is ruining the game and how it's built to be played, I also second your notion that it's just ruining the experience. We are MASSIVE Halo fans and we really are bummed out that we might not want to keep playing MCC for very much longer. Literally all 343 has to do is bring back classic slayer. It isn't that hard. Please 343.. Please bring back classic Slayer. Bring back DEFAULT AR in every playlist except the niche ones of course ("Hardcore", Team DMRs, etc.)

We all need to push this. A majority of players on this forum really do feel slighted by 343 because of their personal take on what Halo ought to be and the cancer that is the "competitive scene" - gag me. If we keep at it, maybe they'll actually bring it back. Also FYI my buddies and I have played 31 hours so far and have never played a single game of Slayer with AR starts...
Can we just lock this thread?
And here we see a typical DMR defender who's angry that the majority of people don't enjoy his MLG wankfest so he tries to stop any and all discussion.
I genuinely cannot fathom how someone can possibly think that starting with DMR is the most fun way to play Halo. It just renders most of the game's ability to create fun and unique scenarios in multiplayer matches null and void.
If you want this game to be competitive so bad, add more playlists to Ranked, and let us have fun in Social, the space where I thought we were supposed to be able to have fun.

Edit/Addendum: I get the feeling that toning back the omnipresence of the DMR might also lessen all the complaints about aim assist by a metric f***-ton.
Postums (343i employee):
Quote:
If there are not enough AR starts to your liking, please continue to leave feedback you that you want to see more of them.
Source: https://twitter.com/343Postums/status/1204870237587296257
You've heard him, folks. For everyone who hasn't already, please leave your feedback at https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/f3681fbc78fa43878c4aec9a63a46224/topics/mcc-multiplayer-feedback-pc/46d5cc54-4a2d-478d-89c6-ec27fd8ef84a/posts

Let's get rid of DMR starts, shall we?
Postums (343i employee):
Quote:
If there are not enough AR starts to your liking, please continue to leave feedback you that you want to see more of them.
Source: https://twitter.com/343Postums/status/1204870237587296257
You've heard him, folks. For everyone who hasn't already, please leave your feedback at https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/f3681fbc78fa43878c4aec9a63a46224/topics/mcc-multiplayer-feedback-pc/46d5cc54-4a2d-478d-89c6-ec27fd8ef84a/posts

Let's get rid of DMR starts, shall we?
90% of that feedback thread is people complaining about DMR starts and yet Tyler Davis seems to think the majority want DMR starts. It's halarious how obvious 343 makes it that they hate the game.
Postums (343i employee):
Quote:
If there are not enough AR starts to your liking, please continue to leave feedback you that you want to see more of them.
Source: https://twitter.com/343Postums/status/1204870237587296257
You've heard him, folks. For everyone who hasn't already, please leave your feedback at https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/f3681fbc78fa43878c4aec9a63a46224/topics/mcc-multiplayer-feedback-pc/46d5cc54-4a2d-478d-89c6-ec27fd8ef84a/posts

Let's get rid of DMR starts, shall we?
90% of that feedback thread is people complaining about DMR starts and yet Tyler Davis seems to think the majority want DMR starts. It's halarious how obvious 343 makes it that they hate the game.
IKR. I mean I get it, you could argue that it is not representative. Still, even if it was 15% of your playerbase who actually absolutely wanted to get rid of DMR starts, you would be talking of numbers in the thousands, you can't just ignore that.
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