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Postums (343i employee):
Quote:
If there are not enough AR starts to your liking, please continue to leave feedback you that you want to see more of them.
Source: https://twitter.com/343Postums/status/1204870237587296257
You've heard him, folks. For everyone who hasn't already, please leave your feedback at https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/f3681fbc78fa43878c4aec9a63a46224/topics/mcc-multiplayer-feedback-pc/46d5cc54-4a2d-478d-89c6-ec27fd8ef84a/posts

Let's get rid of DMR starts, shall we?
90% of that feedback thread is people complaining about DMR starts and yet Tyler Davis seems to think the majority want DMR starts. It's halarious how obvious 343 makes it that they hate the game.
IKR. I mean I get it, you could argue that it is not representative. Still, even if it was 15% of your playerbase who actually absolutely wanted to get rid of DMR starts, you would be talking of numbers in the thousands, you can't just ignore that.
BUMP. BIG BUMP. GO GO GO. FLIPPIN RETWEET THAT ISH
Absolutely agree. I've played hundreds of hours on 360 and my favorite thing about Halo is the AR start. The DMR start is unbalanced and maps that used to be full of strategic moves and interesting battles are now just getting shut down with the DMR. I love this game and want an option for non-DMR starts.

If I wanted a DMR start, I would play SWAT.
Postums (343i employee):
Quote:
If there are not enough AR starts to your liking, please continue to leave feedback you that you want to see more of them.
Source: https://twitter.com/343Postums/status/1204870237587296257
You've heard him, folks. For everyone who hasn't already, please leave your feedback at https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/f3681fbc78fa43878c4aec9a63a46224/topics/mcc-multiplayer-feedback-pc/46d5cc54-4a2d-478d-89c6-ec27fd8ef84a/posts

Let's get rid of DMR starts, shall we?
90% of that feedback thread is people complaining about DMR starts and yet Tyler Davis seems to think the majority want DMR starts. It's halarious how obvious 343 makes it that they hate the game.
IKR. I mean I get it, you could argue that it is not representative. Still, even if it was 15% of your playerbase who actually absolutely wanted to get rid of DMR starts, you would be talking of numbers in the thousands, you can't just ignore that.
BUMP. BIG BUMP. GO GO GO. FLIPPIN RETWEET THAT ISH
Postums says most people prefer DMR starts

I say make an AR/Mag playlist and you'll instantly see what people actually prefer.
sadly this isnt going to get patched. Most will happen is a playlist that is not dmr starts.
Reach has always had issues with weapon balance. The dmr is just stupid easy to use and way to strong. At least the pistol in halo CE you had to lead, that alone makes a huge difference. Then you have the bloom which is just at this point cosmetic, spamming it seems to be the best way to use it and then just aim for the headshot.

The only way to fix things without really doing much is to change the dmr bloom back down to its original release to stop spam, reduce auto aim for controllers, because lets face it its easy mode at this point, and make playlists with no dmr starts.

Thing is will they even bother? i say no because once the nxt halo game is out people will move over, then move over again to the nxt halo until there all out.
straight up make it AR and Magnum or im just not gonna play. Its not the same halo when everyone is hiding on a rock with a dmr
blackods wrote:
straight up make it AR and Magnum or im just not gonna play. Its not the same halo when everyone is hiding on a rock with a dmr
I been playing FFA. It is a ar pistol start and let me tell you it feels like classic halo. Every one fighting over better weapons to kill each other. Except the map high noon...... that map is just dmr camping period. Avoid it like the flood.
DMRs need to get out of starting loudouts and just be map weapons. Maybe they wouldn't be too bad if the bleed through effect wasn't a thing. But crazy power on a precision weapon and able to get head shots despite a enemy still having shields is just way to powerful.
I agree wholeheartedly.

While I don't want DMR starts removed, I just want them to be at most a quarter of all matchmade games. AR/magnum starts for the vast majority of matches with that occasional DMR start to mix things up would be lovely.
Amazing to me how a decade ago the Bungie forums were full of people griping about AR starts...now people don't want DMR starts. Amazing.
When playing a normal slayer feels for more liberating and you're actually allowed to move around the map I can confirm that DMR starts are WAY too common in the slayer playlist. I had maybe 1 out of 8 matches that were not DMR starts.
Amazing to me how a decade ago the Bungie forums were full of people griping about AR starts...now people don't want DMR starts. Amazing.
Controller =/= MKB
DMR is my favorite weapon on the whole franchise but starting with it EVERY TIME is really boring... I can't believe i'm starting to miss those old AR + pistol starts.
Amazing to me how a decade ago the Bungie forums were full of people griping about AR starts...now people don't want DMR starts. Amazing.
Yes there are some pretty extreme posts in here generally claiming that they don't want DMR starts period. But I think almost everyone could reasonably agree that a balanced mix of the two types of starts in all game modes wouldn't be a bad idea, especially on PC. AR starts vs. DMR starts drastically change how the game plays, each have their advantages and disadvantages. Having a balance of both would keep things fresh.

Variety is super important, halo has so much potential for a healthy balance of variety, but the playlists are currently not utilizing all of this potential. Moving heavily in favor of one style of gameplay is not a good idea and will be disappointing to either the group of players who enjoyed early Reach, or those who enjoyed later Reach.
Moosease wrote:
Amazing to me how a decade ago the Bungie forums were full of people griping about AR starts...now people don't want DMR starts. Amazing.
Yes there are some pretty extreme posts in here generally claiming that they don't want DMR starts period. But I think almost everyone could reasonably agree that a balanced mix of the two types of starts in all game modes wouldn't be a bad idea, especially on PC. AR starts vs. DMR starts drastically change how the game plays, each have their advantages and disadvantages. Having a balance of both would keep things fresh.

Variety is super important, halo has so much potential for a healthy balance of variety, but the playlists are currently not utilizing all of this potential. Moving heavily in favor of one style of gameplay is not a good idea and will be disappointing to either the group of players who enjoyed early Reach, or those who enjoyed later Reach.
That is a great, and balanced perspective.

I love the DMR, but I think the variety point you made is critical to this discussion. If 3/10 games were DMR starts, and the other 7/10 were AR/Magnum it would be more enjoyable. Everyone having DMRs makes a map play very differently than if everyone has an AR/Magnum to start. AR/Magnum encourages seeking out weapons on the map much more so than a DMR start which if you're good with it, can nullify all other weapons, even snipers.
Moosease wrote:
Amazing to me how a decade ago the Bungie forums were full of people griping about AR starts...now people don't want DMR starts. Amazing.
Yes there are some pretty extreme posts in here generally claiming that they don't want DMR starts period. But I think almost everyone could reasonably agree that a balanced mix of the two types of starts in all game modes wouldn't be a bad idea, especially on PC. AR starts vs. DMR starts drastically change how the game plays, each have their advantages and disadvantages. Having a balance of both would keep things fresh.

Variety is super important, halo has so much potential for a healthy balance of variety, but the playlists are currently not utilizing all of this potential. Moving heavily in favor of one style of gameplay is not a good idea and will be disappointing to either the group of players who enjoyed early Reach, or those who enjoyed later Reach.
That is a great, and balanced perspective.

I love the DMR, but I think the variety point you made is critical to this discussion. If 3/10 games were DMR starts, and the other 7/10 were AR/Magnum it would be more enjoyable. Everyone having DMRs makes a map play very differently than if everyone has an AR/Magnum to start. AR/Magnum encourages seeking out weapons on the map much more so than a DMR start which if you're good with it, can nullify all other weapons, even snipers.
It's called having separate playlists. There's clearly a crowd for both game modes so I think it would make a lot of sense to have separate playlists, they would both have sizable populations. It really seems like neither audience wants to interact with the other; AR/Mag people don't want to play DMRs and vice versa.

343 just needs to let people choose. I don't know why they chose to cater to the competitive crowd as the default mode for SOCIAL, and then made some piss poor Competitive playlist offerings. Invasion? Competitive? Really? In its current state, this game gets boring really fast. I'm doing campaign again and I've all but finished playing MP until they change it. If they don't change it, I'm pretty much done for good. Seriously, every game is Team Snipers Lite.
I think the game would be more fun if the DMR was removed entirely. at the very least they should reduce the damage by half to address the absurdly fast kill times and virtually unlimited ammo.
-1
Pillow119 wrote:
Can we just lock this thread?
This is a legitimate issue with the game and is, at the same time, feedback. Locking this thread would just start another. As far as I can see the overwhelming majority of people agree with OP so locking would just show that 343 doesn't care about player feedback. So far I haven't seen a single real argument against this, especially since there already are plenty of DMR-dominated gamemodes(hello Team Hardcore). DMR starts break the maps and considering that 75% of weapons simply are not used because of it, DMR starts also break the balance of the game, and by definition disrupt the way the game/games were meant to be played. If someone truly doesn't enjoy any other gun besides the DMR by all means, they can go in Team Hardcore or SWAT, nobody is stopping them, (even though playing a game for a single gun is pretty ridiculous) but the "competitive" people need to understand that this is not only pushing people away from not buying the game, but it's also pushing current players away. There are modes for DMR fests already in, Halo's core gameplay shouldn't be muddied by this powerweapon being in the hands of every player as soon as they spawn.
Do you really think they would have this for start if it wasn't intended?
Pillow119 wrote:
Can we just lock this thread?
This is a legitimate issue with the game and is, at the same time, feedback. Locking this thread would just start another. As far as I can see the overwhelming majority of people agree with OP so locking would just show that 343 doesn't care about player feedback. So far I haven't seen a single real argument against this, especially since there already are plenty of DMR-dominated gamemodes(hello Team Hardcore). DMR starts break the maps and considering that 75% of weapons simply are not used because of it, DMR starts also break the balance of the game, and by definition disrupt the way the game/games were meant to be played. If someone truly doesn't enjoy any other gun besides the DMR by all means, they can go in Team Hardcore or SWAT, nobody is stopping them, (even though playing a game for a single gun is pretty ridiculous) but the "competitive" people need to understand that this is not only pushing people away from not buying the game, but it's also pushing current players away. There are modes for DMR fests already in, Halo's core gameplay shouldn't be muddied by this powerweapon being in the hands of every player as soon as they spawn.
Do you really think they would have this for start if it wasn't intended?
Do you really think 343 knows how to properly run an halo game? I mean they might have done a good job with halo 5 MP (according to lots of people) but that game doesn’t feel like halo at all to me. DMR starts breaks the game period.
I always thought the pistol in H5 was one of the best things about that game. A precision weapon that can win close against automatic weapons if you don't miss (but autos still have a chance to actually kill), while also effective at mid range. It can also kinda hit at longer ranges, but almost impossible to actually laser someone at longer ranges. While it has no range, what is terrible about Halo Reach's pistol is the complete coin flip as to who wins with the huge bloom and quick RoF.

Would be cool to mod the Reach pistol to have a slower RoF and little to no bloom and see how that plays out. Its important to have a good starting precision weapon, but terrible to let it be dominant at all ranges.
Klong wrote:
Would be cool to mod the Reach pistol to have a slower RoF and little to no bloom and see how that plays out. Its important to have a good starting precision weapon, but terrible to let it be dominant at all ranges.
While I believe that the Magnum is fine as it is right now in TU settings, I can still agree with this statement, and is pretty much a tl;dr version of the DMR start debacle. People are acting as if the Magnum straight up can't shoot bullets and that the Assault Rifle would be the only weapon worth using in an AR/Magnum start, except it would actually provide opportunities for both weapons to be used. The Assault Rifle can kill people relatively quickly in close range, and the Magnum can be of use at both medium and close range, but is limited by a tight ammo and clip capacity.
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