Forums / Games / Halo: The Master Chief Collection (PC)

What happened to "It's Ready When It's Ready"?

OP D dawgy

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HOrobOD1 wrote:
I can't believe anyone would defend the atrocity that 343 has brought upon us with this lazy release of a game. It's been what a month and a half and the population is already down 89.75% and people still think it's doing "Well"? I guess some delusion is present here because it's insane to think that it's normal with any indication of past Halo's population drop rate. The guy above me said the only issue is DMR start but what about the obvious Audio issues? Crouching issue? Terrible spawns on every map just about, broken and boring map cycle for BTB, Broken matchmaking system that still has the same issues Halo 3 did when searching for games, No voting, Quitting just about every single match, No option to turn off text chat, No in game report, No forge despite the fact it's easily ready and their only excuse is button mapping lmfao. The list continues with very small things that could be subjective to personal opinion (but honestly relatable to previous Halo's). Nobody can defend this garbage pile 343 has thrown at us in time for Holidays to make a quick dollar. Nothing excuses their MINIMAL communication about MAJOR issues. Above all... NOTHING excuses their choice to release this game as it is.

Edit: Speaking of small things, I can't believe I have to say this but. Who in their right mind decided to map out the controls to limit us on the sniper zoom? Lack of mapping for chat? and of course the embarrassing lack of video settings this game fails to offer. It's seriously a joke at this point and I am sad to even acknowledge this game as apart of the Halo series.
You do know they post weekly Friday development updates on their flighting thread right? Also they've addressed just about everything you've mentioned in your post. Software development is complicated. Yes they rushed the game to cash in on a holiday release and I'm not at all defending that, but updates are coming. When developing a large piece of software for a large organization, you can't just make tweaks to the code and push them out. You have to propose your changes, code the changes, review the changes, check for errors, and if any are found, correct them and return to step one. Once all these things are done you have to perform verification and validation. You have to go through a process to ensure that your changes meet the customer needs, as well as check that your changes are doing exactly what they were intended to do. If any of these fail, you have to return to step 1 and repeat everything. Then once everything is done, they flight the changes with the community, and repeat the process again when issues are found. After this, once everything is up to spec, the final product can be pushed out to the distribution platform such as steam.

It's a very long tedious process, but is how software engineers ensure a higher quality release without major bugs. If you'd been reading the weekly updates, you'd know that we are nearing both a Halo CE flight, but also a Reach flight in a few weeks. This means all their community inspired changes are almost ready to be played by the flight community, which means major updates will soon follow assuming no major hiccups.
As someone who comes from a family of developers, just stop... Please. Stop.

I'm bored of hearing these apologists throw around excuses about how complex developing is.
That doesn't excuse releasing the game early. (Though MS are at fault really here)
That doesn't excuse simple features taking this long.
That doesn't excuse urgent fixes taking this long.

99% of the time I see a "developer apologist", they're defending a bad developer who could *easily* be doing much, much better.

If this were our company developing this, and you lot our clients, we'd have worked hard to address all your concerns and in this time frame probably delivered them, and kept in far better contact than simply restricting our communications to a single flighting thread that's tucked away in a sub-forum (boggles the mind why they don't post these updates on their home page news feed as that would be a way better contact method but whatever, let's defend them expecting people to dig around in the forums to find news that should be on, you know, the news page but isn't...)

It's been nearly 2 months since launch now. It doesn't take 2 months to let us rebind push to talk or disable chat. And don't give us excuses about how they can't push hotfixes without difficulty either, because that's perfectly possible through stream and the Microsoft store. I've had some programs push fixes almost thrice a week in their opening month. Hasn't been an issue. Our company sometimes pushes updates if something is critically broken, and we sometimes work extra hours to make it happen.

As good devs, it irks me to no end to see apologists like you defending lousy devs, citing excuses about how they're trying their best when everyone else knows that's clearly hogwash.
HOrobOD1 wrote:
I can't believe anyone would defend the atrocity that 343 has brought upon us with this lazy release of a game. It's been what a month and a half and the population is already down 89.75% and people still think it's doing "Well"? I guess some delusion is present here because it's insane to think that it's normal with any indication of past Halo's population drop rate. The guy above me said the only issue is DMR start but what about the obvious Audio issues? Crouching issue? Terrible spawns on every map just about, broken and boring map cycle for BTB, Broken matchmaking system that still has the same issues Halo 3 did when searching for games, No voting, Quitting just about every single match, No option to turn off text chat, No in game report, No forge despite the fact it's easily ready and their only excuse is button mapping lmfao. The list continues with very small things that could be subjective to personal opinion (but honestly relatable to previous Halo's). Nobody can defend this garbage pile 343 has thrown at us in time for Holidays to make a quick dollar. Nothing excuses their MINIMAL communication about MAJOR issues. Above all... NOTHING excuses their choice to release this game as it is.

Edit: Speaking of small things, I can't believe I have to say this but. Who in their right mind decided to map out the controls to limit us on the sniper zoom? Lack of mapping for chat? and of course the embarrassing lack of video settings this game fails to offer. It's seriously a joke at this point and I am sad to even acknowledge this game as apart of the Halo series.
You do know they post weekly Friday development updates on their flighting thread right? Also they've addressed just about everything you've mentioned in your post. Software development is complicated. Yes they rushed the game to cash in on a holiday release and I'm not at all defending that, but updates are coming. When developing a large piece of software for a large organization, you can't just make tweaks to the code and push them out. You have to propose your changes, code the changes, review the changes, check for errors, and if any are found, correct them and return to step one. Once all these things are done you have to perform verification and validation. You have to go through a process to ensure that your changes meet the customer needs, as well as check that your changes are doing exactly what they were intended to do. If any of these fail, you have to return to step 1 and repeat everything. Then once everything is done, they flight the changes with the community, and repeat the process again when issues are found. After this, once everything is up to spec, the final product can be pushed out to the distribution platform such as steam.

It's a very long tedious process, but is how software engineers ensure a higher quality release without major bugs. If you'd been reading the weekly updates, you'd know that we are nearing both a Halo CE flight, but also a Reach flight in a few weeks. This means all their community inspired changes are almost ready to be played by the flight community, which means major updates will soon follow assuming no major hiccups.
As someone who comes from a family of developers, just stop... Please. Stop.

I'm bored of hearing these apologists throw around excuses about how complex developing is.
That doesn't excuse releasing the game early. (Though MS are at fault really here)
That doesn't excuse simple features taking this long.
That doesn't excuse urgent fixes taking this long.

99% of the time I see a "developer apologist", they're defending a bad developer who could *easily* be doing much, much better.

If this were our company developing this, and you lot our clients, we'd have worked hard to address all your concerns and in this time frame probably delivered them, and kept in far better contact than simply restricting our communications to a single flighting thread that's tucked away in a sub-forum (boggles the mind why they don't post these updates on their home page news feed as that would be a way better contact method but whatever, let's defend them expecting people to dig around in the forums to find news that should be on, you know, the news page but isn't...)

It's been nearly 2 months since launch now. It doesn't take 2 months to let us rebind push to talk or disable chat. And don't give us excuses about how they can't push hotfixes without difficulty either, because that's perfectly possible through stream and the Microsoft store. I've had some programs push fixes almost thrice a week in their opening month. Hasn't been an issue. Our company sometimes pushes updates if something is critically broken, and we sometimes work extra hours to make it happen.

As good devs, it irks me to no end to see apologists like you defending lousy devs, citing excuses about how they're trying their best when everyone else knows that's clearly hogwash.
Don't blame the devs, blame the corporation they answer to. There's a big difference in working as and independent developer and working for a huge corporation. The difference is there's a lot more overhead and quality control processes to conform to. MS probably has some strict standards and processes for 343 to follow, causing even simple patches to take a long time. My point is that gamers on here should be patient and wait for an update. It may not come as soon as we'd like, but it will come eventually. Their complaints have been heard, as 343 has acknowledged them and is working on them. All we can do is wait. The developers aren't just sitting around all day and not working on the game.

Also this is coming from someone who IS a software developer and also comes from a family of developers, FYI.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
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HOrobOD1 wrote:
HOrobOD1 wrote:
I can't believe anyone would defend the atrocity that 343 has brought upon us with this lazy release of a game. It's been what a month and a half and the population is already down 89.75% and people still think it's doing "Well"? I guess some delusion is present here because it's insane to think that it's normal with any indication of past Halo's population drop rate. The guy above me said the only issue is DMR start but what about the obvious Audio issues? Crouching issue? Terrible spawns on every map just about, broken and boring map cycle for BTB, Broken matchmaking system that still has the same issues Halo 3 did when searching for games, No voting, Quitting just about every single match, No option to turn off text chat, No in game report, No forge despite the fact it's easily ready and their only excuse is button mapping lmfao. The list continues with very small things that could be subjective to personal opinion (but honestly relatable to previous Halo's). Nobody can defend this garbage pile 343 has thrown at us in time for Holidays to make a quick dollar. Nothing excuses their MINIMAL communication about MAJOR issues. Above all... NOTHING excuses their choice to release this game as it is.

Edit: Speaking of small things, I can't believe I have to say this but. Who in their right mind decided to map out the controls to limit us on the sniper zoom? Lack of mapping for chat? and of course the embarrassing lack of video settings this game fails to offer. It's seriously a joke at this point and I am sad to even acknowledge this game as apart of the Halo series.
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Don't blame the devs, blame the corporation they answer to. There's a big difference in working as and independent developer and working for a huge corporation. The difference is there's a lot more overhead and quality control processes to conform to. MS probably has some strict standards and processes for 343 to follow, causing even simple patches to take a long time. My point is that gamers on here should be patient and wait for an update. It may not come as soon as we'd like, but it will come eventually. Their complaints have been heard, as 343 has acknowledged them and is working on them. All we can do is wait. The developers aren't just sitting around all day and not working on the game.

Also this is coming from someone who IS a software developer and also comes from a family of developers, FYI.
Did I say they make quality games? What I'm saying is when developing for a large corporation means many more levels of approval before code changes can be pushed to the end user. Also Microsoft's meaning of quality is what will net them the most profit, not what the user sees as high quality.
HOrobOD1 wrote:
HOrobOD1 wrote:
HOrobOD1 wrote:
I can't believe anyone would defend the atrocity that 343 has brought upon us with this lazy release of a game. It's been what a month and a half and the population is already down 89.75% and people still think it's doing "Well"? I guess some delusion is present here because it's insane to think that it's normal with any indication of past Halo's population drop rate. The guy above me said the only issue is DMR start but what about the obvious Audio issues? Crouching issue? Terrible spawns on every map just about, broken and boring map cycle for BTB, Broken matchmaking system that still has the same issues Halo 3 did when searching for games, No voting, Quitting just about every single match, No option to turn off text chat, No in game report, No forge despite the fact it's easily ready and their only excuse is button mapping lmfao. The list continues with very small things that could be subjective to personal opinion (but honestly relatable to previous Halo's). Nobody can defend this garbage pile 343 has thrown at us in time for Holidays to make a quick dollar. Nothing excuses their MINIMAL communication about MAJOR issues. Above all... NOTHING excuses their choice to release this game as it is.

Edit: Speaking of small things, I can't believe I have to say this but. Who in their right mind decided to map out the controls to limit us on the sniper zoom? Lack of mapping for chat? and of course the embarrassing lack of video settings this game fails to offer. It's seriously a joke at this point and I am sad to even acknowledge this game as apart of the Halo series.
...
...
Don't blame the devs, blame the corporation they answer to. There's a big difference in working as and independent developer and working for a huge corporation. The difference is there's a lot more overhead and quality control processes to conform to. MS probably has some strict standards and processes for 343 to follow, causing even simple patches to take a long time. My point is that gamers on here should be patient and wait for an update. It may not come as soon as we'd like, but it will come eventually. Their complaints have been heard, as 343 has acknowledged them and is working on them. All we can do is wait. The developers aren't just sitting around all day and not working on the game.

Also this is coming from someone who IS a software developer and also comes from a family of developers, FYI.
"Microsoft" ... "quality control" ... "standards"

You're funny. Have you even seen any of the half-broken, microtransaction-riddled garbage that came out of their studios these past few years?
Did I say they make quality games? What I'm saying is when developing for a large corporation means many more levels of approval before code changes can be pushed to the end user. Also Microsoft's meaning of quality is what will net them the most profit, not what the user sees as high quality.
Will it? Microsoft can mistakes as well, they aren't the all knowing messiah. Have you seen Gears 5? That game went on a big 50% sale just 2 months after being released and is already dead on Xbox as well as on PC, despite their massive efforts to pack it full to the brim with microtransactions for that sweet post-launch "live service" cash. Was it Microsoft's idea as well to sell the "standard" edition for 10 bucks more in EU countries compared to the US yet the "Ultimate" edition for the same price in both territories?

Not pushing major updates because Microsoft demands so? They could've easily added push to talk and text chat being re-bindable keys a lot of customers were complaining about in a mini-update a week after launch yet they decide to wait to release that "feature" together with Halo CE 3 months later. Unhappy customers, always great for profit.

Then again people already paid full prize for a broken, unfinished product they can't refund after all the false "ready when it's ready", "made for PC" marketing campaign Microsoft whispered into 343's ear, so I guess they indeed made "the most profit" thanks to them.
HOrobOD1 wrote:
HOrobOD1 wrote:
I can't believe anyone would defend the atrocity that 343 has brought upon us with this lazy release of a game. It's been what a month and a half and the population is already down 89.75% and people still think it's doing "Well"? I guess some delusion is present here because it's insane to think that it's normal with any indication of past Halo's population drop rate. The guy above me said the only issue is DMR start but what about the obvious Audio issues? Crouching issue? Terrible spawns on every map just about, broken and boring map cycle for BTB, Broken matchmaking system that still has the same issues Halo 3 did when searching for games, No voting, Quitting just about every single match, No option to turn off text chat, No in game report, No forge despite the fact it's easily ready and their only excuse is button mapping lmfao. The list continues with very small things that could be subjective to personal opinion (but honestly relatable to previous Halo's). Nobody can defend this garbage pile 343 has thrown at us in time for Holidays to make a quick dollar. Nothing excuses their MINIMAL communication about MAJOR issues. Above all... NOTHING excuses their choice to release this game as it is.

Edit: Speaking of small things, I can't believe I have to say this but. Who in their right mind decided to map out the controls to limit us on the sniper zoom? Lack of mapping for chat? and of course the embarrassing lack of video settings this game fails to offer. It's seriously a joke at this point and I am sad to even acknowledge this game as apart of the Halo series.
You do know they post weekly Friday development updates on their flighting thread right? Also they've addressed just about everything you've mentioned in your post. Software development is complicated. Yes they rushed the game to cash in on a holiday release and I'm not at all defending that, but updates are coming. When developing a large piece of software for a large organization, you can't just make tweaks to the code and push them out. You have to propose your changes, code the changes, review the changes, check for errors, and if any are found, correct them and return to step one. Once all these things are done you have to perform verification and validation. You have to go through a process to ensure that your changes meet the customer needs, as well as check that your changes are doing exactly what they were intended to do. If any of these fail, you have to return to step 1 and repeat everything. Then once everything is done, they flight the changes with the community, and repeat the process again when issues are found. After this, once everything is up to spec, the final product can be pushed out to the distribution platform such as steam.

It's a very long tedious process, but is how software engineers ensure a higher quality release without major bugs. If you'd been reading the weekly updates, you'd know that we are nearing both a Halo CE flight, but also a Reach flight in a few weeks. This means all their community inspired changes are almost ready to be played by the flight community, which means major updates will soon follow assuming no major hiccups.
As someone who comes from a family of developers, just stop... Please. Stop.

I'm bored of hearing these apologists throw around excuses about how complex developing is.
That doesn't excuse releasing the game early. (Though MS are at fault really here)
That doesn't excuse simple features taking this long.
That doesn't excuse urgent fixes taking this long.

99% of the time I see a "developer apologist", they're defending a bad developer who could *easily* be doing much, much better.

If this were our company developing this, and you lot our clients, we'd have worked hard to address all your concerns and in this time frame probably delivered them, and kept in far better contact than simply restricting our communications to a single flighting thread that's tucked away in a sub-forum (boggles the mind why they don't post these updates on their home page news feed as that would be a way better contact method but whatever, let's defend them expecting people to dig around in the forums to find news that should be on, you know, the news page but isn't...)

It's been nearly 2 months since launch now. It doesn't take 2 months to let us rebind push to talk or disable chat. And don't give us excuses about how they can't push hotfixes without difficulty either, because that's perfectly possible through stream and the Microsoft store. I've had some programs push fixes almost thrice a week in their opening month. Hasn't been an issue. Our company sometimes pushes updates if something is critically broken, and we sometimes work extra hours to make it happen.

As good devs, it irks me to no end to see apologists like you defending lousy devs, citing excuses about how they're trying their best when everyone else knows that's clearly hogwash.
Don't blame the devs, blame the corporation they answer to. There's a big difference in working as and independent developer and working for a huge corporation. The difference is there's a lot more overhead and quality control processes to conform to. MS probably has some strict standards and processes for 343 to follow, causing even simple patches to take a long time. My point is that gamers on here should be patient and wait for an update. It may not come as soon as we'd like, but it will come eventually. Their complaints have been heard, as 343 has acknowledged them and is working on them. All we can do is wait. The developers aren't just sitting around all day and not working on the game.

Also this is coming from someone who IS a software developer and also comes from a family of developers, FYI.
It's really a double standard. Why should I, as a consumer, be patient when Microsoft blew their load for holiday sales.

I'm thankful that i only purchased Reach and not the entire MCC collection on steam because now i won't be buying CE, 2, 3 or any other garbage they try to sale unless MAJOR issues are fixed by launch. Not 4 weeks after launch, not 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 12 weeks after launch, but LAUNCH DAY.
I wouldn't say anyone complaining about a game being released before it was finished is impatient.

We wanted to wait longer, at least until the game was finished. The problem is now that it has likely irreversibly harmed the reputation of the game and by extension, the player base. Thankfully I don't really care about reach but if they do this with the other games I will be very disappointed.
HOrobOD1 wrote:
I just see the game as an early access game because it's still in major development with many huge features yet to come, such as forge, theater, and a progression system update.
I agree. It should be seen as an early access game. Not a full release under the "finished" moniker. What I mean is that 343/MS need to clearly label this as an unfinished product. Not just in the sense of there being bugs, but the lack of functionality and polishing. Being pushed off as a ready for retail product is what's upsetting the players. Coupled with their lackluster method of communication. Yeah, the weekly updates are great... For all of a minute. The last one was just addressing prior posts and brought little in terms of actual progress.
I wouldn't say anyone complaining about a game being released before it was finished is impatient.

We wanted to wait longer, at least until the game was finished. The problem is now that it has likely irreversibly harmed the reputation of the game and by extension, the player base. Thankfully I don't really care about reach but if they do this with the other games I will be very disappointed.
Exactly. I totally bought into the idea of "its ready when its ready" and expected a polished product. And yet we still get Reach in this messy state.
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Still unfinished.
Plays fine enough for me.
Plays fine enough for me.
And it doesn't for everyone else.
KnightFJS wrote:
Plays fine enough for me.
And it doesn't for everyone else.
Plays fine enough for me too, so not "everyone" else...
HOrobOD1 wrote:
KnightFJS wrote:
Plays fine enough for me.
And it doesn't for everyone else.
Plays fine enough for me too, so not "everyone" else...
The playerbase having a drastic drop in population of over 90% says otherwise. Can we not lie about this port being fine? Just because you're fine with receiving bare bones rushed out products does not mean we are fine with it.

https://steamcharts.com/app/976730#All
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D dawgy wrote:
I just got done reading the MCC Development Update (I know it's been out for more than 6 days) and i can't help to think: What happened to "It's ready when it's ready"?

From the issues to mouse input, audio, VFR, no Forge or Theatre and Locked keybinds (looking at you 'V' for push-to-talk), I can't help to think that this game is not ready for it's launch on December 3.

Was the 'it's ready when it's ready' just a ploy to get us to shut up? And ultimately was a push by Microsoft for the holiday season?

In the end, i'm sick of being lied to. This game is not ready.
I've had this conversation too many times to count. At this point, both Reach and Halo CE are at the beta level. I honestly think we are beta testing the PC version of Infinite. Also, this post did age well. ;)
KnightFJS wrote:
HOrobOD1 wrote:
KnightFJS wrote:
Plays fine enough for me.
And it doesn't for everyone else.
Plays fine enough for me too, so not "everyone" else...
The playerbase having a drastic drop of over 90% says otherwise. Can we not lie about this port being fine? Just because you're fine with receiving bare bones rushed out products does not mean we are fine with it.

https://steamcharts.com/app/976730#All
343 could serve these people literal -Yoink- on a plate and they would eat it
Sure there are a few bugs, but guess what? The game is in active development. You know what that means? It means issues are being worked out and features are being added. I can let a few bugs slide because the core Halo experience is still in tact and perform like a charm. Now if the game was released with no promise of further development, I'd be severely disappointed and would immediately ask for a refund, but considering there is are FOUR more full length Halo titles to come, along with many other great quality of life fixes, there's gonna be a lot to love. We are getting other Halo games on PC. Something people thought we'd never see, especially this many years later.

Since the beginning, the devs have said they would release content in chunks as it was being developed. You simply can't expect a completed 100% polished product on day 1 when they are using this development strategy. Sure you may not like the strategy, so then don't buy the game until all the content is released like a year from now, or just don't even bother at all. You also can't expect development to happen overnight. They are a relatively small team working on a passion project for our entertainment. These things take time.

I've flighted for both reach and CEA, submitted all the bugs I found, and am enjoying the heck out of the games as I excitedly await to see how they deliver the rest of the content.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.
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