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Why Are We Punishing Quitting in Social Games?!

OP Novashank

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tl;dr: Stop penalizing players for quitting Social Games matches and allow late-join to make things right if people do quit a match, like so many other multiplayer games do. This will also improve the number of concurrent live matches.

This has been bothering me for a long while now (and hopefully I'm not alone in this), and I see it's not going to change if I wait around for change to happen. After searching through the forums for this topic and only seeing what I feared, people calling for even more punishment, I'm not sure how everyone will take this. But here goes.

So most of the popular multiplayer matchmaking games we play these days, they allow you to join a match that's already in progress and as such, have no need to penalize players for quitting live matches. Why is Halo any different? I know it always has been in the past, but does it still need to be this way today?

The problem with this, you see, is that 343 has now had to enforce the penalties for quitting matches. And rather than completely discarding the idea of penalties, they must go in the opposite direction and instead double down, triple down and quadruple down on the punishments to ensure that the players fall in line. I understand doing this for a hardcore competitive game with ranked matches. And yes, this would make sense for the Competitive Games part of Halo: MCC Multiplayer. But why do this for Social Games? Isn't the whole point of "Social" Games to create a casual, not strictly competitive environment where winning and losing don't matter as much as having fun and doing our best? To be the more positive and upbeat alternative to Ranked/Competitive Games? This is a rather heavy-handed way of controlling people leaving. Why even give us the option to leave?

Why are we applying a ranked game policy to social games? Is this really the best way? People leave matches all the time, and the thing is, it's not always their fault! As we all know, sometimes people crash or lag out or have an emergency and have to leave immediately. Should we punish people for unavoidable incidents? Really? I don't think it's fair to be held back for minutes at a time from playing a game we paid at least $30 for, for such a trivial reason.

Are we trying to make Halo matchmaking hardcore and competitive only, giving all the casual players a resentful kick to the curb? Is that really going to help a game that hopes to be popular worldwide? Do we really need to do our absolute darndest to make this iteration of Halo as close as possibly true to the original, to the extent that we even keep obselete, outmoded and sometimes even damaging features and policies? To the extent that many people will want to jump off the ship because it was stubbornly headed in an unfavorable direction? (May I mention that far more people are casual gamers than are hardcore?)

Please 343, stop being the matchmaking police state. You don't have to preserve the legacy of Bungie that meticulously, I don't think. It would hurt far less players than it helps if you would take a chance and do some things that will improve gameplay and matchmaking at the cost of breaking the old Halo mold a little bit. Let's allow leaving and late joining without penalties in Halo: MCC Matchmaking--at least in Social Games!--just like the majority of other big multiplayer games, which incidentally have a much higher player population than this game right now. Why might that be the case? Let's all just relax, take a chill pill, and try to make this place a little more player-friendly, and then maybe we'll see.
I am a very casual and infrequent player (and probably not very good by the standards of most here).

The last few times I've tried to play MP, I've been in lopsided matches where my team is loses 50-9 or something similar. And since I can't quit the match without a penalty, I have to endure 10 minutes of spawn -> headshot -> repeat until the other team finally racks up 50 kills. Needless to say, after I spend some of my precious time after the kids are in bed going through one match of this, I turn it off and go find something else to do where I have more confidence my time won't be wasted, rather than joining another match.

I'm sure some will say "learn 2 play", but I'm playing social games because I want to play for fun. Not because I want something else I need to sink hours of time into before I can get any pleasure out it.

I would love the ability to leave the match when it's 38 - 4 and the rest of my team has already left without being penalized.
Novashank wrote:
Then why are we applying a ranked game policy to social games? Why is it better to create a strict environment where the consequence of being banned temporarily, even permanently constantly looms over our heads?
Its not permanent. Its literally minutes at a time, increasing up to like 5 quits and resets like every X hours you haven't quit or daily.

https://support.halowaypoint.com/hc/en-us/articles/360037287112-Why-Did-I-Get-Banned-"
"Current ban ladder for MCCCurrently, bans are calculated and based off your actions within in the last 3 hours.
  • First quit: 1 minute ban
  • Second quit: 3 minute ban
  • Third quit: 5 minute ban
  • Fourth quit: 10 minute ban
  • Additional quits: 10 minute ban
If you don't have a quit within a 3 hour period, then you will reset back to the first step on the ban ladder. There is still a record of how many quits you have, but it is not used in this automated system."
They were implemented all the way back when Halo 2 was the latest Halo game out. They were implemented because leavers were a problem in matchmaking and a necessary evil to try deter people from dropping out the instant games weren't going in their way, which more often then not was minutes within a match. They haven't been removed last I checked since then... Halo 2 came out November 9, 2004.
Novashank wrote:
Then why are we applying a ranked game policy to social games? Why is it better to create a strict environment where the consequence of being banned temporarily, even permanently constantly looms over our heads?
Its not permanent. Its literally minutes at a time, increasing up to like 5 quits and resets like every X hours you haven't quit or daily.

https://support.halowaypoint.com/hc/en-us/articles/360037287112-Why-Did-I-Get-Banned-"
"Current ban ladder for MCCCurrently, bans are calculated and based off your actions within in the last 3 hours.
  • First quit: 1 minute ban
  • Second quit: 3 minute ban
  • Third quit: 5 minute ban
  • Fourth quit: 10 minute ban
  • Additional quits: 10 minute ban
If you don't have a quit within a 3 hour period, then you will reset back to the first step on the ban ladder. There is still a record of how many quits you have, but it is not used in this automated system."
Oh okay, I thought people said if you quit too many times you get permabanned. I'll correct my post, thank you. :)
I am a very casual and infrequent player (and probably not very good by the standards of most here).

The last few times I've tried to play MP, I've been in lopsided matches where my team is loses 50-9 or something similar. And since I can't quit the match without a penalty, I have to endure 10 minutes of spawn -> headshot -> repeat until the other team finally racks up 50 kills. Needless to say, after I spend some of my precious time after the kids are in bed going through one match of this, I turn it off and go find something else to do where I have more confidence my time won't be wasted, rather than joining another match.

I'm sure some will say "learn 2 play", but I'm playing social games because I want to play for fun. Not because I want something else I need to sink hours of time into before I can get any pleasure out it.

I would love the ability to leave the match when it's 38 - 4 and the rest of my team has already left without being penalized.
This. Thank you, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. It's both elitist and toxic at the same time, and this is the type of environment this approach creates. After all, Bungie never intended for us casual and medium-core players to feel left out!
Dont leave the games and you wont have a problem. Its as easy as that.
I believe this is put into play because Halo doesn't drop players in mid game. So if people are just leaving all time, the matches are gonna be uneven too often. The penalties as well are pretty minor if you don't leave too often in a certain amount of time.
Social or ranked...shouldn't be used an excuse for allowing people to quit.
Dont leave the games and you wont have a problem. Its as easy as that.
Problem is you then end up with people who don't quit but also don't play; "AFK" but probably just alt-tab'd out, basically giving free kills.
Maybe people wouldn't quit as much if they were put into properly matchmade games that didn't feel like 500 ping......
Dont leave the games and you wont have a problem. Its as easy as that.
When other people leave I still have a problem. Not so easy.
Dont leave the games and you wont have a problem. Its as easy as that.
When other people leave I still have a problem. Not so easy.
Could always play free for all type game modes, where leaving won't screw over your non exsistant teammates lol.
Dont leave the games and you wont have a problem. Its as easy as that.
When other people leave I still have a problem. Not so easy.
Could always play free for all type game modes, where leaving won't screw over your non exsistant teammates lol.
Or they can just do what every other game does and allow in progress joining.
Only downside I've ever seen is that sometimes you join a game that's about to end but that's much more bearable than being down a player for the whole game.
Dont leave the games and you wont have a problem. Its as easy as that.
When other people leave I still have a problem. Not so easy.
Could always play free for all type game modes, where leaving won't screw over your non exsistant teammates lol.
Or they can just do what every other game does and allow in progress joining.
Only downside I've ever seen is that sometimes you join a game that's about to end but that's much more bearable than being down a player for the whole game.
Have you ever taken into consideration that this is Bungies/343's game and that's not how and what it's designed to have in the first place? Having people join matches that are already in progress generally just open up a revolving door. People will enter, see something other then a fresh new game, see one team is losing, and promptly quit right afterwards.

They did this before, it just doesn't work.
Dont leave the games and you wont have a problem. Its as easy as that.
When other people leave I still have a problem. Not so easy.
Could always play free for all type game modes, where leaving won't screw over your non exsistant teammates lol.
Or they can just do what every other game does and allow in progress joining.
Only downside I've ever seen is that sometimes you join a game that's about to end but that's much more bearable than being down a player for the whole game.
Have you ever taken into consideration that this is Bungies/343's game and that's not how and what it's designed to have in the first place? Having people join matches that are already in progress generally just open up a revolving door. People will enter, see something other then a fresh new game, see one team is losing, and promptly quit right afterwards.

They did this before, it just doesn't work.
When did they try it before? CE to Reach didn't have JIP, was it Halo 4? I never played that one tbf.
The revolving door issue is still significantly preferable to nothing at all. God knows the punitive approach doesn't work.
What are you talking about? There's virtually no punishment for quitting. If anything they need way higher restrictions for quitting games. Join in progress was incredibly lame in halo 4 because every match felt meaningless, you never felt like you beat a team you just beat whoever happened to cycle in over time.

More quitting penalities means people less likely to quit on your team. Halo 3 had a decent system for this imo.
Dont leave the games and you wont have a problem. Its as easy as that.
When other people leave I still have a problem. Not so easy.
Could always play free for all type game modes, where leaving won't screw over your non exsistant teammates lol.
Or they can just do what every other game does and allow in progress joining.
Only downside I've ever seen is that sometimes you join a game that's about to end but that's much more bearable than being down a player for the whole game.
Have you ever taken into consideration that this is Bungies/343's game and that's not how and what it's designed to have in the first place? Having people join matches that are already in progress generally just open up a revolving door. People will enter, see something other then a fresh new game, see one team is losing, and promptly quit right afterwards.

They did this before, it just doesn't work.
When did they try it before? CE to Reach didn't have JIP, was it Halo 4? I never played that one tbf.
The revolving door issue is still significantly preferable to nothing at all. God knows the punitive approach doesn't work.
I recall it being early in to Halo's life. They noted that it didn't have a good enough impact so they retracted it and put back in game abandonment penalties for frequent abandoners and left it at that ever since.

I can't speak though for the PC games before this, I'm talking about the consoles bare in mind...
What are you talking about? There's virtually no punishment for quitting. If anything they need way higher restrictions for quitting games. Join in progress was incredibly lame in halo 4 because every match felt meaningless, you never felt like you beat a team you just beat whoever happened to cycle in over time.

More quitting penalities means people less likely to quit on your team. Halo 3 had a decent system for this imo.
OH, wasn't aware Halo 4 had join in progress matches as well since I never played 4... Looks like it didn't work their either as it's not back in this game at all.
Dont leave the games and you wont have a problem. Its as easy as that.
When other people leave I still have a problem. Not so easy.
Could always play free for all type game modes, where leaving won't screw over your non exsistant teammates lol.
Or they can just do what every other game does and allow in progress joining.
Only downside I've ever seen is that sometimes you join a game that's about to end but that's much more bearable than being down a player for the whole game.
Have you ever taken into consideration that this is Bungies/343's game and that's not how and what it's designed to have in the first place? Having people join matches that are already in progress generally just open up a revolving door. People will enter, see something other then a fresh new game, see one team is losing, and promptly quit right afterwards.

They did this before, it just doesn't work.
When did they try it before? CE to Reach didn't have JIP, was it Halo 4? I never played that one tbf.
The revolving door issue is still significantly preferable to nothing at all. God knows the punitive approach doesn't work.
I recall it being early in to Halo's life. They noted that it didn't have a good enough impact so they retracted it and put back in game abandonment penalties for frequent abandoners and left it at that ever since.

I can't speak though for the PC games before this, I'm talking about the consoles bare in mind...
What are you talking about? There's virtually no punishment for quitting. If anything they need way higher restrictions for quitting games. Join in progress was incredibly lame in halo 4 because every match felt meaningless, you never felt like you beat a team you just beat whoever happened to cycle in over time.

More quitting penalities means people less likely to quit on your team. Halo 3 had a decent system for this imo.
OH, wasn't aware Halo 4 had join in progress matches as well since I never played 4... Looks like it didn't work their either as it's not back in this game at all.
I know for a fact Halo 3 didn't have JIP.
I just don't get why it works for stuff like Call of Duty and Overwatch but not Halo.

I can't speak for Halo 4 but considering that game's reputation, the issue was probably with the game itself rather than JIP.
This is me coming back to this thread after a long while... it looks like this issue is even more controversial than I thought so I don't expect anything to change, at least not in the direction I'm hoping for. I hope that the way matchmaking is right now is what the majority really wants because who knows how many people it's hurting...
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