Forums / Games / Halo: The Master Chief Collection (PC)

why ce (mcc) is broken - and how to fix it on time

OP esqurridiso

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Hope 343 reads this.
Long read, but I'll try being as clear and serious as possible.

(Note: I'll NEVER refer to the remastered anniversary mode, that obviously looks much better, I always mean classic mode).

Now, CE in MCC is not the original version, it's full of mistakes that were never at the beginning. This errors were made back when when it was ported to PC. The problem is, MCC is based on the PC version. I will classify this bugs into 2 categories (gameplay and graphics).

Graphics

If you played the original Xbox version of CE, you'll notice that it looks better than MCC (remember, just classic mode and MP). This can run from very small details to very present elemets that look akward, ugly.
I can list them as follows:
- Lack of certain shaders (ie stationary shields, dropship plasma, AR's specular shader, teleportation effect disappearing abruptly)
- Missing multipurpose/bitmap maps.
- Missing reflection masks (ie windows on the Pillar of Autuomn or the floor on the control room do not reflect).
- Missing detail masks (ie the skyboxes, on mission 3 it looks absurdly bright and abrupt, and there's a phantom ring shadow on Damnation).
- Broken fog (ie no fog on 343 guilty spark swamp, underwater, the second watterfall on mission 2, the sky on mission 5 and 8).
- Broken atmosphere effects (ie vines in the swamp, some water, sparks).
- Multipurpose/bitmap maps of bsps do not react with radiosity lighting.
- White line splitting the horizon in some maps (this appeared first on MCC, not PC).
- Blood textures randomly flicker and display partially as if suddently cut (this also appeared first on MCC, not PC).
- Major jackal's shields look like the minor's (only PC, fixed on MCC)
- Water is totally flat, not reflecting or having moving waves (also on PC, but not MCC that I remember)

ALL OF THIS has been fixed in a mod for custom edition. Now, I know it may be way too hard to replace the campaign maps and add the new stuff, but the guys that made the mod explain how they dug into and fixed each of these issues. The answers are there. They pretty much did most of the work.

Gameplay

First, I don't count the changes made to multiplayer maps (ie Beaver Creek windows, four power ups and portals on Sidewinder) or new weapsns/veichles because those are clearly not mistakes. Intentional enhancements (and with mod support you could get the original maps)
List (None has been fixed anywere yet, therefore I could miss some)
- Coalition (ie the Cortana pedestal bump is impossible, you can knock the invincible marines through windows in the bridge).
- Some script encounters are broken (ie covenant not throwing grenades).
- Inconsistent AI patterns.
- Especially, multiplayer weapon balance. Let me explain. Originally the weapons in multiplayer behaved differently from campaign. I guess Bungie decided that the balance for campaign was not fitting for MP and the ones who ported the game did not know about this tweak, so they left the weapons in multiplayer as they were in campaign. This explains the odd inconsistencies, magnetism and damage that they cause. Ask an expert if they feel the magnum is strange here. Melee also appears to be broken.
That's it.
Again, I really wish that 343 reads this. CE has been left unpolished from all these years, and we should not keep misremembering as it. The first class-citizen experience they mentioned is not totally complete without this. I would not just leave it and pray that maybe modders unofficially solve the problems again (sorta). Please, and thank you.
Great attention to detail. I honestly never noticed half of these, but the Gearbox port is pretty sloppy so I'm not surprised. Another thing I've wanted them to change is the way the sound design works. Regardless of what graphics the player is using, the CEA sounds for weapons, environments, etc are used. The new audio does not fit the classic weapons at all and it totally throws off the feel of the gunplay. Halo 2 Anniversary's audio (and music) are exclusive to the new graphics, so switching back and forth lets the player do an actual comparison of how the design has been changed/improved. It's always disappointed me how much of the old game CEA pasted over.
I hope modding will be able to fix those mistakes later on because I feel like 343 probably won't fix them when its ported over to PC.
they are uploading updates trying to correct errors but I think the damage is already done XD just hope that in PC so many problems do not happen
I don't see why they used the Gearbox port for Anniversary in the first place. It's not like the Xbox version had any trouble running on a 360.

Oh well. If mod support happens, I'm sure the CE Refined guys can make something happen.
Entropy91 wrote:
I don't see why they used the Gearbox port for Anniversary in the first place. It's not like the Xbox version had any trouble running on a 360.

Oh well. If mod support happens, I'm sure the CE Refined guys can make something happen.
Might have to do with the PC version being easier to use with the second engine. Maybe this is why we won't see a Halo 3 Anniversary either, no PC version of it exists?
I really hope the Refined guys will consider fixing the maps again for MCC when it isn't officially fixed by that point. Would heavily depend on the engine, tools and work involved though. Otherwise I might as well keep playing Refined Custom Edition for classic CE.
Entropy91 wrote:
I don't see why they used the Gearbox port for Anniversary in the first place. It's not like the Xbox version had any trouble running on a 360.

Oh well. If mod support happens, I'm sure the CE Refined guys can make something happen.
Persumably for the Multiplayer because the PC port of Halo CE already had the netcode built in unlike the OG Xbox version.
I asked on the Refined mod Discord and got the following answer by Kavawuvi regarding possible modding of MCC CE:
Quote:
@Terg500 If modding was possible, I'd definitely give it a look, myself
however it has anticheat, so my skills might not be very useful there unless you like getting banned for having mods
the thing with anticheat is it blocks binary hacks, as cheats are binary hacks. however, legitimate mods that are also binary hacks also get blocked
Chimera, for example, is a legitimate mod and not a cheat, but it would not be allowed by MCC because of how it changes the game's code.
and sometimes, it doesn't just check the game's code for changes but also the files being loaded (the maps), and if these are protected by anticheat, then you can forget about Refined being there
and even if it were to support custom maps, you're not replacing the existing stock maps there because anticheat. What if I replaced all of the textures with glass textures, for example?
anyway
not worth the risk of getting banned imo
So for now I'd say Refined is the best classic CE experience we can have unless 343/Splash Damage surprise us.
343 Should just hire the guys who made that mod to make sure Halo CE is exactly how it was on OG xbox graphics wise. Would be disappointing to find this stuff missing in the PC release.
Shekul wrote:
343 Should just hire the guys who made that mod to make sure Halo CE is exactly how it was on OG xbox graphics wise. Would be disappointing to find this stuff missing in the PC release.
I agree 100%

I will be gutted if these issues aren't addressed. CE is important. And personally I want to play it in the classic graphics.
I agree 100%, which is why it’s important that we all voice this concerns as much as possible when appropriate until & during CE’s flighting period for Steam.

If enough of the community shows that it cares, Ruffian/Splash Damage should address our concerns.

But we have to remain vocal.
Wasn't this mentioned in an update a few months ago how they are looking to fix this?
So I guess this also means Halo CEA is a very fancy mod of HaloCE.
Photolysis wrote:
Wasn't this mentioned in an update a few months ago how they are looking to fix this?
Do you remember where? I'd love to read it.
Photolysis wrote:
Wasn't this mentioned in an update a few months ago how they are looking to fix this?
Do you remember where? I'd love to read it.
Me too
Found the link:
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/mcc-october-update

Quote:
3. Classic maps. Given that H1A is based on the HaloPC port, there are a number of things which don’t match legacy Halo 1. In the community, there’s a project called Halo CE Refined looking to correct as many things as possible: https://www.reddit.com/r/HaloCERefined/. We’re on the same page and want to work out the kinks that make MCC’s Halo 1 maps and levels not match the classic version. This work ranges from balance tunings in weapons/multiplayer objects, textures/shaders using settings that cause deviation, and even different level geometry. Right now I’m in the investigation process of this work. This involves doing a “diff” of the original game’s content with what’s in HaloPC/MCC, which by itself has called out some head scratchers. I’ve also been talking with some of the people that have dedicated their time working on Refined to address mismatches.
Thanks Photolysis. I hope Sean and team have been working on this and bringing it over with Splash Damage for the PC version that's being worked on simultaneously with Reach PC. Fingers crossed.
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Terg500 wrote:
Entropy91 wrote:
I don't see why they used the Gearbox port for Anniversary in the first place. It's not like the Xbox version had any trouble running on a 360.

Oh well. If mod support happens, I'm sure the CE Refined guys can make something happen.
Might have to do with the PC version being easier to use with the second engine. Maybe this is why we won't see a Halo 3 Anniversary either, no PC version of it exists?
I really hope the Refined guys will consider fixing the maps again for MCC when it isn't officially fixed by that point. Would heavily depend on the engine, tools and work involved though. Otherwise I might as well keep playing Refined Custom Edition for classic CE.
Well now that the MCC is being ported to PC...

Perhaps with enough popularity they could do H3A to better profit off the new Steam fanbase?

But anyways, why doesn't 343 just work with the HCE modding community to apply all the patches that fix these issues and get it over with?

And can we please have the MP patch the removes the ability to team kill with vehicles so easily? It's existed for years already...
But anyways, why doesn't 343 just work with the HCE modding community to apply all the patches that fix these issues and get it over with?
I'm sure they'll get round to doing stuff like this eventually, but they can't just drop everything they're doing to work on this. Remember it's a small team at 343 that are handling the work on this, there's only so much they can do at a time and already have a backlog to get through.
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