Skip to main content

Forums / Community / General Discussion

[Locked] A Message to 343

OP PeachedCrane60

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 4
So right about now is s dry period for first person Halo games, not much news,no new dev made content and really just a whole load of not much. Now the Esport things do exist but a lot of people dislike or dont care about that. I understand you may be working on Halo 6 or helping with Halo Wars 2 ( And I love Halo Wars so carry on with that ) but weekly gamemode rotations or new REQ packs are not enough for people like me so I was thinking, maybe you go back to older Halo games and add more stuff, even updating the news thing in Reach once in a while or adding new gamemodes to the older games or even improving the Forge might be nice. See, if the older games get more stuff the Halo fans who love the classic stuff and people like me will have more to do and may buy a new DLC you might add, maybe do something with the MCC or get all the Halos a independent port onto Xbox One so more people buy these games on the Xbox store so they get better multiplayer, or at least they think that... Now because your going to the older Halos it might take less time and less effort to do this, so please 343, consider doing this
I'm eager for Halo 6, and I want it as quickly as it can be done right. As such I think the last thing we need is detours into a plethora of smaller projects that will either take time away from- or delay the release of Halo 6.
Considering 343's approach to development and often flawed implementation of concepts, I'd rather they keep as far away from the older titles as possible, ta very much.

In terms of realistic things they could do between now and Halo 6, I think Halo Wars 2 is going to be the main focus, continuing with their Season Pass content and the Awakening the Nightmare expansion, and Halo 5 will likely continue to be used as a test bed for additional methods of monetising things that were previously free.
I'm 99% sure that Halo 3 and ODST will be added to backwards compatibility for Halo 3's Anniversary (in order to draw the most attention to their release), as both were shown as part of the big-screen lineup at E3 this year.

Beyond this, I can't see them doing anything game-related, and I hope they don't.
All hands should be on deck for Halo 6, because a lot is riding on it being good.
JNDreher wrote:
I'm eager for Halo 6, and I want it as quickly as it can be done right. As such I think the last thing we need is detours into a plethora of smaller projects that will either take time away from- or delay the release of Halo 6.
yes there is a lot of work going into halo 6, and the last thng we need is for devs to stop working on it just to improve 5
H5 can't be improved. It's course is already set and nothing is changing that now. With that said, even if 343 focuses every effort on H6 I still have severe reservations about its quality and content. Given 343s track record, I can see H6 shaping up to be more of the same uninspired, underwhelming, poor examples of what Halo is.
H5 can't be improved. It's course is already set and nothing is changing that now. With that said, even if 343 focuses every effort on H6 I still have severe reservations about its quality and content. Given 343s track record, I can see H6 shaping up to be more of the same uninspired, underwhelming, poor examples of what Halo is.
I don't believe that pessimism towards 343 is warranted, giving their track record. Every game 343 tries new things, and drops the things that didn't work well from the previous game (as best as they can, given the player feedback). As far as I can tell, they haven't repeated the same mistakes in consecutive games yet, and making new mistakes is something that will always happen when new things are being tried, and condemning them for this is really unfair.

Example: The Master Chief Collection tried to release with all of its content, but it wasn't given enough time by Microsoft to finish everything to have a fully polished game, so what was released was a very broken game. Halo 5 again wasn't given enough time by Microsoft for 343 to finish it, so 343 (responding to the backlash against the MCC, decided to complete and polish the core of the game (campaign and a couple multiplayer modes), and then release the rest of the game FOR FREE as DLC, as it was completed. In both cases not having enough time wasn't 343's fault, and even though it was the same hurdle, they tried different things, showing that they are listening to the players.

Regarding the story of 343's games, it fully fits with the lore established by Bungie. Reading all of the novels fills in the gaps, and shows that the plots in the games aren't nearly as confusing or random as some people claim. I can agree that Halo 5 didn't handle the story as well as it could have, but not for the reason the pessimists claim. 343 is doing their best to tie the whole of Halo's lore into one coherent narrative, which means things encountered in novels should sometimes be encountered in the settings depicted in the games and vice-versa. The trouble here with Halo 5 is that too much of the plot and characters' backstories were exclusively in other mediums (novels and comics) so the people who only experience Halo through the games were left without those layers of lore behind the game. But even in that situation, I don't think most of the pessimists who complained about the game's story really tried to understand it.

What motivation does a company have to improve if you complain about everything they do, regardless of what it is, including projects that haven't even been announced yet? Anyone in that position will realize that it's not worth the effort to appease you if you prove that you can't be appeased. Remember, that this franchise has a very large fan-base, and they can't (and shouldn't) try to tailor the game to your specific standards, because whatever your standards are, you aren't representative of the whole of the fanbase.
Although I wish they would go back and add things to older games, it wouldn't make sense from their point of view. They're trying to keep people playing their current game and adding stuff to older games would not only make people leave H5, but it would also piss people off, because why are they adding stuff to older games and not to their current one when it desperately needs some new content.
JNDreher wrote:
I'm eager for Halo 6, and I want it as quickly as it can be done right. As such I think the last thing we need is detours into a plethora of smaller projects that will either take time away from- or delay the release of Halo 6.
With the likelihood that Halo 6 will be just another ability-riddled sprint-fest, I would be 100% in favor of taking away resources to improve the older Halo games, especially MCC.
Willko wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
I'm eager for Halo 6, and I want it as quickly as it can be done right. As such I think the last thing we need is detours into a plethora of smaller projects that will either take time away from- or delay the release of Halo 6.
With the likelihood that Halo 6 will be just another ability-riddled sprint-fest, I would be 100% in favor of taking away resources to improve the older Halo games, especially MCC.
The nice thing about this situation is that we don't have to agree. I'm free to believe your appraisal and preferences for Halo are completely faulty.

My opinion is that people still complaining about the current state of the MCC are not going to ever be appeased (regardless of what is done), so it's a waste for 343 to throw money, time, and manpower into trying, because they're never going to get a return out of it. What isn't a waste is doing everything they can to make the next game the best they can make it.
JNDreher wrote:
Willko wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
I'm eager for Halo 6, and I want it as quickly as it can be done right. As such I think the last thing we need is detours into a plethora of smaller projects that will either take time away from- or delay the release of Halo 6.
With the likelihood that Halo 6 will be just another ability-riddled sprint-fest, I would be 100% in favor of taking away resources to improve the older Halo games, especially MCC.
The nice thing about this situation is that we don't have to agree. I'm free to believe your appraisal and preferences for Halo are completely faulty.

My opinion is that people still complaining about the current state of the MCC are not going to ever be appeased (regardless of what is done), so it's a waste for 343 to throw money, time, and manpower into trying, because they're never going to get a return out of it. What isn't a waste is doing everything they can to make the next game the best they can make it.
What makes you think that people still complaining about MCC aren't going to be appeased if 343 followed through in fixing it? We've never been in a situation where MCC has been fully functional.

MCC fans are completely justified in being angry.
Willko wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
Willko wrote:
JNDreher wrote:
I'm eager for Halo 6, and I want it as quickly as it can be done right. As such I think the last thing we need is detours into a plethora of smaller projects that will either take time away from- or delay the release of Halo 6.
With the likelihood that Halo 6 will be just another ability-riddled sprint-fest, I would be 100% in favor of taking away resources to improve the older Halo games, especially MCC.
The nice thing about this situation is that we don't have to agree. I'm free to believe your appraisal and preferences for Halo are completely faulty.

My opinion is that people still complaining about the current state of the MCC are not going to ever be appeased (regardless of what is done), so it's a waste for 343 to throw money, time, and manpower into trying, because they're never going to get a return out of it. What isn't a waste is doing everything they can to make the next game the best they can make it.
What makes you think that people still complaining about MCC aren't going to be appeased if 343 followed through in fixing it? We've never been in a situation where MCC has been fully functional.

MCC fans are completely justified in being angry.
I know the pessimists won't be appeased because of their conduct.

They are making demands and doing their best to bully 343 into giving them their exact preferences, to the exclusion of any basic understanding of sound business practices. And for perspective, I've recently played through the MCC and Skyrim, and I've had the more "functional" gaming experience with the MCC. So the level of outrage regarding the MCC is unjustified.
JNDreher wrote:
I don't believe that pessimism towards 343 is warranted, giving their track record. Every game 343 tries new things, and drops the things that didn't work well from the previous game (as best as they can, given the player feedback). As far as I can tell, they haven't repeated the same mistakes in consecutive games yet, and making new mistakes is something that will always happen when new things are being tried, and condemning them for this is really unfair.

Example: The Master Chief Collection tried to release with all of its content, but it wasn't given enough time by Microsoft to finish everything to have a fully polished game, so what was released was a very broken game. Halo 5 again wasn't given enough time by Microsoft for 343 to finish it, so 343 (responding to the backlash against the MCC, decided to complete and polish the core of the game (campaign and a couple multiplayer modes), and then release the rest of the game FOR FREE as DLC, as it was completed. In both cases not having enough time wasn't 343's fault, and even though it was the same hurdle, they tried different things, showing that they are listening to the players.

Regarding the story of 343's games, it fully fits with the lore established by Bungie. Reading all of the novels fills in the gaps, and shows that the plots in the games aren't nearly as confusing or random as some people claim. I can agree that Halo 5 didn't handle the story as well as it could have The trouble here with Halo 5 is that too much of the plot and characters' backstories were exclusively in other mediums (novels and comics)

What motivation does a company have to improve if you complain about everything they do, regardless of what it is, including projects that haven't even been announced yet? Anyone in that position will realize that it's not worth the effort to appease you if you prove that you can't be appeased. Remember, that this franchise has a very large fan-base, and they can't (and shouldn't) try to tailor the game to your specific standards, because whatever your standards are, you aren't representative of the whole of the fanbase.
If you think that was pessimist let me tell you how I really feel. M$ allowed their flagship franchise to be grossly mishandled, pushed deadlines and have the final say so in all fairness it's there fault, but 343 was created by M$ so to me there one in the same.

Bungie was certainly at fault for starting Halo down the path of adding features that the community disapproved of. But 343 continued the trend in H4 by retaining armor abilities, while implementing full fledged load outs, perks and ordinance drops. To me that's repeating mistakes consecutively, on top of blatantly ripping off major mechanics from COD, Halos direct competition. I guess if you can't beat em, you join em right?!

So they tried some new -Yoink-, it didn't work, and thankfully most of the COD -Yoink- went away (and should never have been there).......except for those tiny spartan abilities that are just reskinned armor abilities but now there ripping off Titanfall. So we still have highly controversial mechanics in a Halo game that, to my knowledge were never overwhelmingly requested. So I'm chalking that up as another consecutive mistake carried over from a previous title. That's 3 in total, twice by 343.

So again we get something new. Warzone. Now there's a mode to further divide the community that, to my complete dismay (sarcasm), is reminiscent of Battlefield. When you said they keep trying new stuff did you mean continually taking -Yoink- from other IPs? Cause that's what I see. With that said all the new -Yoink- they tried isn't even ground breaking. If you haven't guessed by now I give ZERO -Yoinks!- about Warzone. But I digress. Back on track.

With Warzones implementation we no longer have vehicles in MP (Arena). Partly because the maps (built to accommodate all the flashy spartan abilities and are stretched out for sprint) won't allow them, and partly because there trying to funnel players in to Warzone. And why would they do that. Because REQ packs. Which would be fine if it only tied to WZ. But every peice of armor, helmets, visors or emblems (of which I only care for a handle full of each) is buried underneath a mountain of vehicle or weapon variants that I'll never use and tied to bull -Yoink- RNG. So even if/when you finally get what you want it's worthless.

So we got a bunch of drip fed updates to complete the unfinished game we bought. At least they had the sense to make them free. And I used the term update because DLC implies content that is acquired by choice not because it's mandatory. IMO postponing a game that's broken or incomplete is far less damaging then releasing broken games and pissing people off. Yes MCC was ambitious. But it also received next to no support and was basically swepted under the rug. So MCC got rushed out the door........and so did H5. That's another consecutive mistake. We're up to 3 now in case you forgot.

343s efforts to expand the lore are commendable, although extremely segmented. As you said, the problem with H5 is it takes NINE pieces of outside media to fully understand it. Aside from the Hunt the Truth audio series (you left out) which is free, the rest cost more $$$. Outside media should only be used to supplement the story not make it coherent. As fantastic as Hunt the Truth was it didn't really go anywhere. And neither did the Jul Mdama/Janus key story arc from Spartan Ops and Escalation. Jul Mdama gets unceremoniously killed off in the first mission of H5 and we never hear about the Janus Key again. Cortanas survival is a major plot development, but you have to go outside the game to learn how she did. And H4s campaign, one of the most compelling in the series, might as well have never happened thanks to H5. But to my knowledge Brian Reed, the lead writer of H5, is no longer at 343. So I guess they are learning.

Feedback can take many shapes. You can call it -Yoinking!-, complaining, being pessimistic, whatever. It's all the same. But it's not effective if it's sugar coated. I will and have given credit where credit is due. 343s influence is plastered all over H4 and H5. If they had focused more on making a solid Halo game, rather then distancing themselves from Bungie, the games we got would feel a continuation of everything that came before them and not so out of place. Seriously, every single aspect of H5 has been changed. And just to give you a little perspective. H5 is sitting at #20 on Microsoft stores most played. Battlefield is #8. Battlefield shows its population and in the last 3 days it had 13,500 max players on X1. Halo used to have a large population. Over a million players during H3s 2 year reign at #1. So what does that say about Halo now. Obviously it has more competition..........but maybe something in the franchise needs to change, say back to where it came from. I know I'm not the only member of this community, and neither are you. Some of us have played these games longer then 343 has even existed. If I didn't care about this franchise I would not have ripped it so many -Yoink- holes, I would have simply moved on. All I'm saying is 343 should value every players patronage and feedback, and right now I don't feel like they do. Make a game that actually feels like a Halo game and I'll be happy. It's that simple, but some of us are still waiting.
JNDreher wrote:
...
I don't believe that pessimism towards 343 is warranted, giving their track record. Every game 343 tries new things, and drops the things that didn't work well from the previous game (as best as they can, given the player feedback). As far as I can tell, they haven't repeated the same mistakes in consecutive games yet, and making new mistakes is something that will always happen when new things are being tried, and condemning them for this is really unfair.

Example: The Master Chief Collection tried to release with all of its content, but it wasn't given enough time by Microsoft to finish everything to have a fully polished game, so what was released was a very broken game. Halo 5 again wasn't given enough time by Microsoft for 343 to finish it, so 343 (responding to the backlash against the MCC, decided to complete and polish the core of the game (campaign and a couple multiplayer modes), and then release the rest of the game FOR FREE as DLC, as it was completed. In both cases not having enough time wasn't 343's fault, and even though it was the same hurdle, they tried different things, showing that they are listening to the players.

Regarding the story of 343's games, it fully fits with the lore established by Bungie. Reading all of the novels fills in the gaps, and shows that the plots in the games aren't nearly as confusing or random as some people claim. I can agree that Halo 5 didn't handle the story as well as it could have, but not for the reason the pessimists claim. 343 is doing their best to tie the whole of Halo's lore into one coherent narrative, which means things encountered in novels should sometimes be encountered in the settings depicted in the games and vice-versa. The trouble here with Halo 5 is that too much of the plot and characters' backstories were exclusively in other mediums (novels and comics) so the people who only experience Halo through the games were left without those layers of lore behind the game. But even in that situation, I don't think most of the pessimists who complained about the game's story really tried to understand it.

What motivation does a company have to improve if you complain about everything they do, regardless of what it is, including projects that haven't even been announced yet? Anyone in that position will realize that it's not worth the effort to appease you if you prove that you can't be appeased. Remember, that this franchise has a very large fan-base, and they can't (and shouldn't) try to tailor the game to your specific standards, because whatever your standards are, you aren't representative of the whole of the fanbase.
An excellent post, but I don't agree that Halo 5's story was misunderstood. The only character with any agency within the narrative is Cortana, and she doesn't budge an inch throughout the whole game; everything just kind of happens.

It's poorly written, that's the bottom line as far as I'm concerned. AI's are pretty much destined for the scrapyard if the future of Halo's story is to make any sense.
If you think that was pessimist let me tell you how I really feel. M$ allowed their flagship franchise to be grossly mishandled, pushed deadlines and have the final say so in all fairness it's there fault, but 343 was created by M$ so to me there one in the same.

Bungie was certainly at fault for starting Halo down the path of adding features that the community disapproved of. But 343 continued the trend in H4 by retaining armor abilities, while implementing full fledged load outs, perks and ordinance drops. To me that's repeating mistakes consecutively, on top of blatantly ripping off major mechanics from COD, Halos direct competition. I guess if you can't beat em, you join em right?!

So they tried some new -Yoink-, it didn't work, and thankfully most of the COD -Yoink- went away (and should never have been there).......except for those tiny spartan abilities that are just reskinned armor abilities but now there ripping off Titanfall. So we still have highly controversial mechanics in a Halo game that, to my knowledge were never overwhelmingly requested. So I'm chalking that up as another consecutive mistake carried over from a previous title. That's 3 in total, twice by 343.

So again we get something new. Warzone. Now there's a mode to further divide the community that, to my complete dismay (sarcasm), is reminiscent of Battlefield. When you said they keep trying new stuff did you mean continually taking -Yoink- from other IPs? Cause that's what I see. With that said all the new -Yoink- they tried isn't even ground breaking. If you haven't guessed by now I give ZERO -Yoinks!- about Warzone. But I digress. Back on track.

With Warzones implementation we no longer have vehicles in MP (Arena). Partly because the maps (built to accommodate all the flashy spartan abilities and are stretched out for sprint) won't allow them, and partly because there trying to funnel players in to Warzone. And why would they do that. Because REQ packs. Which would be fine if it only tied to WZ. But every peice of armor, helmets, visors or emblems (of which I only care for a handle full of each) is buried underneath a mountain of vehicle or weapon variants that I'll never use and tied to bull -Yoink- RNG. So even if/when you finally get what you want it's worthless.

So we got a bunch of drip fed updates to complete the unfinished game we bought. At least they had the sense to make them free. And I used the term update because DLC implies content that is acquired by choice not because it's mandatory. IMO postponing a game that's broken or incomplete is far less damaging then releasing broken games and pissing people off. Yes MCC was ambitious. But it also received next to no support and was basically swepted under the rug. So MCC got rushed out the door........and so did H5. That's another consecutive mistake. We're up to 3 now in case you forgot.

343s efforts to expand the lore are commendable, although extremely segmented. As you said, the problem with H5 is it takes NINE pieces of outside media to fully understand it. Aside from the Hunt the Truth audio series (you left out) which is free, the rest cost more $$$. Outside media should only be used to supplement the story not make it coherent. As fantastic as Hunt the Truth was it didn't really go anywhere. And neither did the Jul Mdama/Janus key story arc from Spartan Ops and Escalation. Jul Mdama gets unceremoniously killed off in the first mission of H5 and we never hear about the Janus Key again. Cortanas survival is a major plot development, but you have to go outside the game to learn how she did. And H4s campaign, one of the most compelling in the series, might as well have never happened thanks to H5. But to my knowledge Brian Reed, the lead writer of H5, is no longer at 343. So I guess they are learning.

Feedback can take many shapes. You can call it -Yoinking!-, complaining, being pessimistic, whatever. It's all the same. But it's not effective if it's sugar coated. I will and have given credit where credit is due. 343s influence is plastered all over H4 and H5. If they had focused more on making a solid Halo game, rather then distancing themselves from Bungie, the games we got would feel a continuation of everything that came before them and not so out of place. Seriously, every single aspect of H5 has been changed. And just to give you a little perspective. H5 is sitting at #20 on Microsoft stores most played. Battlefield is #8. Battlefield shows its population and in the last 3 days it had 13,500 max players on X1. Halo used to have a large population. Over a million players during H3s 2 year reign at #1. So what does that say about Halo now. Obviously it has more competition..........but maybe something in the franchise needs to change, say back to where it came from. I know I'm not the only member of this community, and neither are you. Some of us have played these games longer then 343 has even existed. If I didn't care about this franchise I would not have ripped it so many -Yoink- holes, I would have simply moved on. All I'm saying is 343 should value every players patronage and feedback, and right now I don't feel like they do. Make a game that actually feels like a Halo game and I'll be happy. It's that simple, but some of us are still waiting.
Pessimism: only seeing the negative in things, to the exclusion of acknowledging the presence of positive things.
This is what I see in your comment. I don't believe you've accurately represented any point in your comment, and the excessive use of censored words removes credibility from your argument instead of whatever you thought it was adding.

So rather than going through point-by-point I'll address your conclusion:
Quote:
All I'm saying is 343 should value every players patronage and feedback, and right now I don't feel like they do. Make a game that actually feels like a Halo game and I'll be happy. It's that simple, but some of us are still waiting.
Halo is played my millions of people across the world. Millions. Try writing out a million tally marks to get perspective on how many that is. When there are that many people playing the game it is literally not possible to create their games to fit every single person's personal preferences. That's just the fact of the matter. Your complaints are due to your expectations not lining up with what the franchise is doing. Don't conflate your opinion with that of the majority. You don't have to like everything they do (I don't even like everything they did), but you need to have some perspective, and check that ego at the door.

Regarding, "feels like a Halo game"... Again, I can't control how you feel about something, and neither can 343. "Feel" is a uselessly vague term in this circumstance and does nothing to help anything. All of the Halo games ARE Halo games. If you want clunky, outdated mobility, play the older games, no one is stopping you. And you can even look up Youtube videos where people play Halo 5 without using Sprint or any other Spartan abilities, just to prove you can, so that option is open to you as well.

It's that simple, you want a multi-million-dollar franchise to tailor the experience to you specifically, or you won't be happy. I believe you've made my case regarding pessimists, and why 343 shouldn't be concerned with their complaints.
JNDreher wrote:
Quote:
All I'm saying is 343 should value every players patronage and feedback, and right now I don't feel like they do. Make a game that actually feels like a Halo game and I'll be happy. It's that simple, but some of us are still waiting.
Halo is played my millions of people across the world. Millions. Try writing out a million tally marks to get perspective on how many that is. When there are that many people playing the game it is literally not possible to create their games to fit every single person's personal preferences. That's just the fact of the matter. Your complaints are due to your expectations not lining up with what the franchise is doing. Don't conflate your opinion with that of the majority. You don't have to like everything they do (I don't even like everything they did), but you need to have some perspective, and check that ego at the door.

Regarding, "feels like a Halo game"... Again, I can't control how you feel about something, and neither can 343. "Feel" is a uselessly vague term in this circumstance and does nothing to help anything. All of the Halo games ARE Halo games. If you want clunky, outdated mobility, play the older games, no one is stopping you. And you can even look up Youtube videos where people play Halo 5 without using Sprint or any other Spartan abilities, just to prove you can, so that option is open to you as well.

It's that simple, you want a multi-million-dollar franchise to tailor the experience to you specifically, or you won't be happy. I believe you've made my case regarding pessimists, and why 343 shouldn't be concerned with their complaints.
I dont deny my view of 343 and "their Halo" is quite salty, as I think any positive change they have made can be counted on one hand. Following trends or making changes for the sake of change or being different then Bungie has not influenced Halo in a positive way. In an effort to be more constructive I'll tone it down a notch.

If you choose to conviently dismiss the bulk of my comments because I used adjectives you don't like then that's on. The use of said adjectives was merely to convey my frustration with Halos direction. The simple fact is 343 has carried over mistakes from previous titles numerous times (something you specifically argued against, but are ignoring now). Yes, Halo as a franchise, has sold millions. I already acknowledged that when I said H3 had a million plus users (myself included). H5 does not, not even close. If it did, 343 should have no problem displaying it's population. But they don't.

Yes, I absolutely agree that my perspective is my expectations on Halos current direction have not been met. I never claimed to be the entire community, the majority, or any quantifiable value. I did say "some of US have played Halo longer then 343 has even existed",again stating no numeric value, just implying that as a studio they should value all feedback, be it positive or negative. I am stating MY(me,I,) opinion. I am saying not everyone currently or formerly in Halos community agrees with 343s direction or influence (YOU can look up Youtube videos to see that I am not alone regarding this) If they did H5s population would be larger, H5 would be higher on Xbox lives most played list and people I know personally would still be playing Halo. I cannot provide quantifiable values, but I believe Halos diminishing returns at the hands of 343 are proof enough of that.

The issues I have with current Halo go much deeper then enhanced mobility. 343s attempts to "modernize" a franchise, which was previously already ahead of the rest of the market, have left Halo without a sense of uniqueness, identity or soul, as a whole. That's what I mean when I say Halo doesn't "feel" like Halo anymore. If that's too vague for you to understand then explaining it is already lost on you, but I will expound anyways. When Marty O'Donnell was tasked with scoring Halos original soundtrack he was given 3 words. "Ancient, epic and mysterious". Themes that directly correlate to the atmosphere, environments and tone of HCE through H3, and have since been grossly forgotten. Those ideas have some (although minimal) parallels on campaign locations in H5 like Genesis or Shanghelios, but are completely lost in terms of MP (where any amount of longevity in an FPS remains). In H2/3 When you looked to the horizon you saw the Halo rings strecthing away as far as you could see. You felt like you were somewhere noone has been for a very long time. Not so in H5. The smattering of industrialized or urban maps in H5 (barring Coliseum or Tyrant) completely breaks the immersion of being in a Halo game.

We didn't need hit markers in H2/3. Enemy shields flashed to represent landing shots. Even the idea of smart link is counterintuitive. If a weapon is integrated to a visor to increase accuracy then why does aiming down sights need to be animated. Hip fire should be plenty eficient. These are still staple features from other IPs that were creatively handled by Bungie, but added by 343 to appease newer players. I have nothing against new players either. More players could/should only benefit the game. But they should be drawn in because Halo is unique, not because it plays like every other FPS on the market now.

Sure you can play H5 without using Spartan abilities (a controversial mistake that has been carried over for the 3rd time, which you again said never happened but still conviently ignored) but the experience is still diminished. The entire sandbox and map design is built around these abilities and suffers just the same. I still revisit older Halo games periodically and I still appreciate them. For you to claim them to be "clunky and outdated in terms of mobility" only shows YOUR opinion, that you favor current trends, have no appreciation for Halos roots or foundation, and can only ignorantly suggest Youtube videos soley to back up your claim.

Why is it that players that defend 343 use the go to comment of just play some things else. Why can't I suggest that you just play Infinite Wafare, Black Ops 2/3 or Titanfall, since you seem to favor the fastpaced enhanced mobility gameplay that those games arguably do better. Even the COD community is begging for a "return to form". Activision finally listened. That's exactly what I'm doing now.

As the current developers of Halo, 343 are the ONLY ones able to control how we "feel". We go to these games to be immersed, to compete and to escape reality. I just think they can do a better job. If 343 can blend old and new gameplay, designs, environments and atmosphere (not just borrow mechanics) then even myself and previous Halo fans can/would be happy. That's not me being pessimistic. That's me giving an honest, unsugarcoated, salty opinion. If we don't say anything positive or negative how can they know.

With that said I do not accept your "case" as conclusive. You have ignored the majority of what I said, without actually opposing it, while cheery picking what is convenient for you. I don't think you even have a case, let alone ground to stand on. You just dont like what I had to say and should have left it at that. But it's nice of you to take up for 343! Thier knight in shining armor.
...
I'd started the point-by-point breakdown of your response you wanted, but halfway through the futility of the exercise hit me, and it occurred to me that continuing this discourse with you will probably break some forum rule or other.

So in conclusion, please understand that there is a difference between your opinions and facts. An objective flaw in a game would be a fact, one that you had no examples of carrying over between multiple Halo games. Your preference for a mechanic you didn't like is an opinion, the exact opposite of a fact. Please apply this critique to each of your arguments.

Fare well, I will not be responding to you further.
JNDreher wrote:
...
I'd started the point-by-point breakdown of your response you wanted, but halfway through the futility of the exercise hit me, and it occurred to me that continuing this discourse with you will probably break some forum rule or other.

So in conclusion, please understand that there is a difference between your opinions and facts. An objective flaw in a game would be a fact, one that you had no examples of carrying over between multiple Halo games. Your preference for a mechanic you didn't like is an opinion, the exact opposite of a fact. Please apply this critique to each of your arguments.

Fare well, I will not be responding to you further.
I honestly wouldn't expect you to come back with a meaningful argument. Telling everybody that their opinion is wrong is the ultimate end all/be all. You call me a pessimist, have no problem dismissing the opinions of the OP and Willko but have no problem stating your own. Talk about a double standard. Obviously members in this community other then myself (what a shocker) take issue with numerous decisions M$/343 have made, or this thread and countless others wouldn't exist. That is most definitely a fact. Just like the fact that I am not the only one that takes issue with 343s continued implementation of certain game altering mechanics. Thanks for the lesson. I'd tell you where to stick all your holier than though self righteous opinions but I'm not trying to get permabanned so use your imagination. I'm sure you'd love that though.
As always, Have nice day

BTW
Nice service record. How did you manage to get to SR2 with 0 games played?! But more importantly, how the hell can you defend a game that you've apparently never played?!

Troll much?.............
JNDreher wrote:
H5 can't be improved. It's course is already set and nothing is changing that now. With that said, even if 343 focuses every effort on H6 I still have severe reservations about its quality and content. Given 343s track record, I can see H6 shaping up to be more of the same uninspired, underwhelming, poor examples of what Halo is.
I don't believe that pessimism towards 343 is warranted, giving their track record. Every game 343 tries new things, and drops the things that didn't work well from the previous game (as best as they can, given the player feedback). As far as I can tell, they haven't repeated the same mistakes in consecutive games yet, and making new mistakes is something that will always happen when new things are being tried, and condemning them for this is really unfair.

Example: The Master Chief Collection tried to release with all of its content, but it wasn't given enough time by Microsoft to finish everything to have a fully polished game, so what was released was a very broken game. Halo 5 again wasn't given enough time by Microsoft for 343 to finish it, so 343 (responding to the backlash against the MCC, decided to complete and polish the core of the game (campaign and a couple multiplayer modes), and then release the rest of the game FOR FREE as DLC, as it was completed. In both cases not having enough time wasn't 343's fault, and even though it was the same hurdle, they tried different things, showing that they are listening to the players.

Regarding the story of 343's games, it fully fits with the lore established by Bungie. Reading all of the novels fills in the gaps, and shows that the plots in the games aren't nearly as confusing or random as some people claim. I can agree that Halo 5 didn't handle the story as well as it could have, but not for the reason the pessimists claim. 343 is doing their best to tie the whole of Halo's lore into one coherent narrative, which means things encountered in novels should sometimes be encountered in the settings depicted in the games and vice-versa. The trouble here with Halo 5 is that too much of the plot and characters' backstories were exclusively in other mediums (novels and comics) so the people who only experience Halo through the games were left without those layers of lore behind the game. But even in that situation, I don't think most of the pessimists who complained about the game's story really tried to understand it.

What motivation does a company have to improve if you complain about everything they do, regardless of what it is, including projects that haven't even been announced yet? Anyone in that position will realize that it's not worth the effort to appease you if you prove that you can't be appeased. Remember, that this franchise has a very large fan-base, and they can't (and shouldn't) try to tailor the game to your specific standards, because whatever your standards are, you aren't representative of the whole of the fanbase.
.....low population and sales numbers,what kind of serious optimism should be coming out of our mouths? You can't praise a company without accepting their faults.I love bungie for making halo,but I can say what they did wrong with the franchise.Data doesn't equal pessimism
Nice service record. How did you manage to get to SR2 with 0 games played?!
You can gain quite a few SR levels from being in an active Spartan Company who are gaining commendations / XP
.....low population and sales numbers,what kind of serious optimism should be coming out of our mouths? You can't praise a company without accepting their faults.I love bungie for making halo,but I can say what they did wrong with the franchise.Data doesn't equal pessimism
If you want a comparison that has meaning, you have to compare the game to its contemporaries, not other games that were a decade or more prior, in an entirely different market environment.

Halo 5 released to awesome sales, it outperformed every single other game on the XB1 released up to that point. That's not "low sales numbers."

Regarding ongoing online population, Halo isn't only online, and some of us play Campaign almost exclusively. Also, Halo's original fanbase is well into the working years of adulthood. We don't have that much time to play games, so even those of us who do play online don't have nearly as much of a presence as the children who spend several hours every day on games that don't have Halo's depth of storytelling. Additionally, Halo has many more competitors than it used to, many of which are free or extremely cheap compared to the cost of playing Halo.

Perspective and discernment. If you aren't looking at the right numbers, you aren't going to come to the correct results.
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 4