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BR starts in Halo?

OP Tuhbu

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Am I the only one who absolutely hates BR starts in Halo? It turns the entire match into a mess of marksmen killing each other in three seconds from across the map. BR is still good weapon don't get me wrong in that, but it has no any type of recoil. people just shoots each other in seconds from across the map. whats the fun in that? I'm not terrible at it but I despise spawning and getting shot from god knows where. I see so much love for it and I can't understand even the slightest why people actually like starting with BRs.
I'm Halo Reach player btw i admit it, i hate dmr starts as well but not that much.
What do you think? why u guys love/hate BR starts.
I used to prefer gametypes like BR Slayer on Halo 3. I guess I haven't run into a problem with it on Halo 5 and didn't know there was a dispute over it until recently.

Are you playing Arena, BTB, or Swat? What maps are you on? Always keep your head on a swivel.
Sounds like something about a specific match? Never had such an issue with any equal weapon starts.
And BR is more of a mid-range weapon which is easily outclassed in range by the people who rush to get sniper rifle at the beginning in bigger maps, I dont get why BR starts would be more of an issue than any other precision weapon start, it's more about map design where it's pretty basic to not design it so that players have instant visibility on opposing players, at the very least when spawning weapons have good range to reach the other team.

So I don't see the issue being the weapon in such case but rather the map design.
Sorry. i totally forgot what halo game i meant. That would mostly be halo 3. But i guess your right, maybe its the map design and cause im more of a Reach player.
Still good to hear what others think. That helped a lot! Thanks.
and for geoffyz this was just a thought. i havent played halo 3 for years. All that i remember that i used to play regular team slayer and people often liked to vote for team slayer BR in different maps. :/
H3's BR would probably be the worst example to use considering it's projectile along with having hit registration issues in the game making it difficult to kill at range. H5 also wouldn't be a good example considering the weapon refresh essentially nerfed the BR and made other precision weapons more favorable to use including the magnum. H4 is up there, but it has a disadvantage with all the movement abilities. It would probably be a toss up between H2C and H2A, but H2C's BR isn't that great at long range while H2A's is a laser and you could likely kill someone with your eyes closed with how easy it is to hit someone so I'd pick H2A.

I'll just add that if you're referring to the game in general, then I guess H2 and H3 would be the games to go with since there was hardly any other options to use for mid to long range weapons to compete with it unlike H4 or H5.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
H3's BR would probably be the worst example to use considering it's projectile along with having hit registration issues in the game making it difficult to kill at range. H5 also wouldn't be a good example considering the weapon refresh essentially nerfed the BR and made other precision weapons more favorable to use including the magnum. H4 is up there, but it has a disadvantage with all the movement abilities. It would probably be a toss up between H2C and H2A, but H2C's BR isn't that great at long range while H2A's is a laser and you could likely kill someone with your eyes closed with how easy it is to hit someone so I'd pick H2A.
I clearly remember the frustration I would experience while trying to hit cross-map headshots in H3 SWAT. I forget the name of the map, but it was the one in the basement of Sandbox. Each team would inevitably get stuck trying to pick each other off from our respective bases... wasn’t very effective...
Back in the OG Halo 2, there were actual button combos that you could use to have an advantage over your opponent. I hate the Halo 2 battle rifle in multiplayer, as it is too overpowered, and is difficult to get a hang on, especially for new players. In my opinion, Halo 3's battle rifle was the best, nerfing it down, but still being a preferable weapon for many players.
I don't mind them but I really like H5's pistol starts with BR being a pick up. Felt more balanced (pre BR update when it was actually worth picking up).
I love H3 BR starts. I prefer it because, well.... it's the BR. (It's 4 shots)
It all depends on the game, honestly. Although the Battle Rifle is a popular choice in pretty much every game, a weapon's power is relative to everything else in the sandbox.

For example, in Halo 3 most weapons were projectile-based instead of hitscan, including the BR. This meant that players could move around big and open maps more easily (such as Valhalla.) That sort of thing is unheard of in Halo 4's version, Ragnarok, since they went back to hitscan weapons by then.

Then there are more polarizing cases, such as Halo 2. The BR was stupidly good in that game because other non-power weapons were awful by comparison. SMG had limited range, wide spread, and a ton of recoil. Meanwhile, the BR had none of that and could get headshots.

So how good BR starts are depends on a few things. Are most weapons hitscan or projectile? Which one is the BR? How good are the other non-power weapons? Is there any kind of bloom mechanic? With all these in mind, I'd say that BR starts work well in Halo 3, and not so well in the other games.
Rhydon65 wrote:
It all depends on the game, honestly. Although the Battle Rifle is a popular choice in pretty much every game, a weapon's power is relative to everything else in the sandbox.

For example, in Halo 3 most weapons were projectile-based instead of hitscan, including the BR. This meant that players could move around big and open maps more easily (such as Valhalla.) That sort of thing is unheard of in Halo 4's version, Ragnarok, since they went back to hitscan weapons by then.

Then there are more polarizing cases, such as Halo 2. The BR was stupidly good in that game because other non-power weapons were awful by comparison. SMG had limited range, wide spread, and a ton of recoil. Meanwhile, the BR had none of that and could get headshots.

So how good BR starts are depends on a few things. Are most weapons hitscan or projectile? Which one is the BR? How good are the other non-power weapons? Is there any kind of bloom mechanic? With all these in mind, I'd say that BR starts work well in Halo 3, and not so well in the other games.
Do hitscan weapons have a range limit? I imagine that projectile weapons do, but I’m not an expert on this topic at all.
Geoffyz wrote:
Rhydon65 wrote:
Do hitscan weapons have a range limit? I imagine that projectile weapons do, but I’m not an expert on this topic at all.
I'm not sure. But sometimes in Halo it feels like there's some kind of limit on how far a bullet can travel before it just fizzles out.
If you are talking about MCC halo 2/3 online gameplayy, I completely agree. Part of this comes from the MCC matchmaking being filled with people who have mastered the BR, and my general inexperience with MCC multiplayer, but the learning curve is very off-putting.

Halo 5 BR starts are agreeable with me. With the removal of the scope and the widening of the recticle (I think?), it is no longer such a cross-map weapon.
BR starts don't bother me. H2 definitely has the learning curve and it's difficult to master in actual combat with another player. In MCC, I tried to learn how people kill one another so quickly and I thought I got the hang of it in a custom match until I actually had to apply it to using my skills against another player and everything went out the window lmao
I don't care whether it is a BR, DMR, or a CE Pistol, Halo just plays better with a precision utility weapon. Halo has never worked in the same way as a traditional Arena shooter where you start from the bottom and work your way up. The game just isn't built that way. Spawning with a close range auto weapon and maybe a weak Pistol leaves players in a situation where they simply don't have the options to effectively counter the team with power weapon and map control.

You can't engage close range power weapons like the rockets/shotgun/sword/etc, you can't engage Snipers, and there are not scoped weaponry on the map for the entire team to easily get sorted off spawn. Even if there were enough BRs or what have you on the map, why not just let them spawn with them? If they truly were that easily accessiblem why add needless busywork to the game?

The problems people have with "BR" starts and similar setups have nothing to do with the BR.

"People don't pick up other weapons" This is because the weapons are typically either A.) Poorly balanced. and/or B.) Don't offer anything unique compared to the weapons you already spawn with. Why pick up a Carbine when the BR does the exact same job? Why pick up a bullet hose Spiker when you already have a bullet hose AR? Poorly balanced and badly designed clone weapons are not going to get anyone to pick them up aside from superficial preferences. Weapon choices should be meaninful gameplay changes based on what players want not desperation for something other than bad starting weapons.

"BR starts make create boring, static, long range stalemates" Again this is not a problem caused by the BR/DMR/ETC or hitscan or a lack of random spread. These are map design problems through and through. Either the map designers have not created enough safe and fast routes for players to move across or they have otherwise failed to create enough incentives on the map to reward players leaving their "side" of the map.

Hemorrhage in Reach is a perfect example of this where there is exactly one neutral power item that spawns once every 3 mintutes and despawns so quickly it can often be picked up and disappear before it is ever used. Combine this with a vehicle health system that punishes aggression and you have a recipe for some WWI style action. Again, none of this has anything to do with utility weapon starts.

TL;DR "BR" and other utility weapons starts are the only way to play Halo(in standard gametypes), bad sandbox and map design are the root of basically all the complaints certain folks make regarding them.
I don't like BR starts. I think 343 just nailed the Magnum in Halo 5, and I remember back before the update, people always ran towards the Battle Rilfe or the Carbine on the maps, but you could outgun a BR with a pistol. Having the Battle Rifle as a start kills the purpose of the equivalent and lesser weapons, so it is good to have the Battle Rifle as an improvement you can pick up and not start with it. The Battle Rifle had so many changes from projectile to hitscan, from random spread to laser shots, that it is better to keep it out of the starts, so balancing becomes less complicated.
If you are basing this opinion on MCC Halo 3. Its hard to judge as someone mentioned above, majority of players still playing H3 have been playing it for years and are better than average. Back in 07-10 when the population was massive I wonder if you would still have the same opinion?
I prefer BR starts, but ultimately I just use whatever is most efficient.
Tuhbu wrote:
Am I the only one who absolutely hates BR starts in Halo? It turns the entire match into a mess of marksmen killing each other in three seconds from across the map. BR is still good weapon don't get me wrong in that, but it has no any type of recoil. people just shoots each other in seconds from across the map. whats the fun in that? I'm not terrible at it but I despise spawning and getting shot from god knows where. I see so much love for it and I can't understand even the slightest why people actually like starting with BRs.
I'm Halo Reach player btw i admit it, i hate dmr starts as well but not that much.
What do you think? why u guys love/hate BR starts.
You're literally just describing how classic Halo functions and why millions of people enjoy playing the game. There is absolutely nothing wrong with BR starts. Consider how even less of an impact you personally would have on a match if you spawned without a precision weapon, unable to fight back against your opponents?

Accepting this truth is the first step in understanding how these games actually work.
IMO I think the BR starts were great until they Nerfed the Ungoy out of it now I prefer the Magnum.
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