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[Locked] COUNTER-GAMING CULTURE

OP GinningSquid712

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Recently I have come across a term, probably coined by myself, which describes certain mindsets, spaces, social groups, practices and products of digital nature in a way as to how they relate to commonday gaming mainstream culture. Before I will try to answer what does Halo have to do with it and how can Halo benefit on it, let me first give you some background on what the term actually is that I talk about. The term is "counter-gaming culture" or "gaming counter-culture". You could say I probably mean the independent or alternative branch of the gaming scene - as opposed to the mainstream trends - which is true, but lacks crucial precision. Alternative wing of the industry allows for wide variety of releases to be classified as belonging, some of them only on the basis of the legal terms, otherwise highly resemblant to the high caliber works.

We should realize the "counter-culture" is something brought to an extreme. "Counter-culture" asks a direct question - namely, what are the characteristics of the mainstream, big branch gaming industry - then it embraces the stance exactly reverse to the one defining the big branch realm and tries to live by this negation as a creed. In practice, it is unlike for the "counter-culture" to emerge in such an ideological, semiaware and neglectful manner, as rather it arises organically, simply from the poetic love towards some of the heavily obsolete or unconventional - but still somewhat practical - solutions to get things done.

To get a better idea of what the "gaming counter-culture" is, lets try to point out the main traits of the big branch industry, at least those traits belonging to the most stereotypical frame of the picture, to later revert them and see what should emerge:

Big branch gaming industry is about:
- making money in a consistent, structured, professional manner
- hiring a fleet composed of highly specialized taskteams and consultants
- providing digital products requiring highest contemporary technological standards
- working towards overcoming the current limits of technology for digital entertainment
- perfecting the patterns of design for future repetitive use
- cutting the products to match the expectations of average massive audience representative, following dominant consumerist trends

Lets say this is enough for now. Six elements. Just invert them and we should see how a "gaming counter-culture" probably ought to look like.

Counter-culture of gaming industry is about:
- shaping the products to meet the tastes of esoteric and sophisticated audience representatives
- experimenting with patterns of design to match the unique contents quality of deliverance
- cultivating the retrograde, simplified or essentialistic standards
- providing digital products suitable for a variety of low key machines and systems
- executing job by oneself, within extent of integrated personal abilities or as part of intimate size network
- doing things out of passion, sincere sympathy, as expression of oneself or in the manner of crosstesting of early draft concepts

Basing on this thought alchemy and taking for a while it is valid, we can see how the "counter-culture" - being quantitatively as margin as it is - holds something vital to a good developercraft, something that was much more common in the early 1990s and is mostly extinct commonday. I talk about the freedom of experimental creating, the acceptance towards originality of form, the sincerely appreciative attitude of people gathered around projects bestowed, as well as the hermeticity or at least the exclusivity of those having access to the mysterious art of digital entertainment "true to the spirit". "Gaming counter-culture", through the retrograde style that it upkeeps, tries to cultivate the spirit of pioneering dynamicism. Current times are deeply paternal [root: pattern], while the pattern taken to a large degree can become oppressive, as each creation in reception is faced against an expected ideal, the utopian image of how a perfect thing should look like. But everything taken to the extreme becomes detrimental, brought out of balance. Paradoxically speaking, times of transition are the moment to expect the most interesting - though certainly imperfect - creations, as they get closer to the state of equilibrium. The best of these creations become the root of patterns to be further polished and eventually transgressed.

I would say the difference between the big branch gaming industry and the "gaming counter-culture" is similar to that between a sect and a megachurch. "Counter-culture" in that example should stand for a sect, the big branch industry for a megachurch. It is enough to say such as in the sect every member is ideally speaking a priest and everyone has expectedly equal access to God or godly matters - thus in the "counter-culture" what dominates is the "by gamers for gamers" attitude - in the megachurch mode, there is a clear division between the broadcasters and the recipients, between those who earn and those who pay, between those who are few but grand and those who are many but meek, finally between those who live by the creed of power and those who live to accept the fate from above. On one hand there is a trap of obscurity and diminuition, on the other, the delusion of plastic fabric made reality of lie and ignorant shallowness.

You are irreversibly a big branch industry these days, Microsoft. Halo is a project at your current disposal, nonetheless the question is, how can Halo benefit from yourself embracing certain elements of the "counter-culture" mindset, evoking elements of the past, vivid days? Everything begins with people. Halo has the fortune of having a loving fandom. Address this fandom, Microsoft. Hear and understand what they say. Try to respond through shaping of your actions. If you will manage to convince the original audience - instead of just the new, much less demanding one, but also much more distracted, marketwise speaking - I doubt such a convincing act or production would lack the charm recognizable also to tertiary viewers. Allow yourself some freedom of experimentation, that is also a point. If you are worried for outcomes and making controversy, go for spinoffs, there is more tolerance for variety there, I suppose. I mean, let yourself. Maybe you try too hard. Let go, relax, express yourself and see what happens. Maybe you will actually intrigue. I believe you cannot win complacency if you go extreme in any direction, because the challenge is to maintain proper balance through knowing what is right and doing what is right, instead of just pushing hard.
Thank you for making this post. It definitely made me sit and think about why we consumers purchase games and why we play them.
Can you repost this in English please?
What point are you trying to get across? You use a lot of filler language, and wordy, complex words, to discuss something that can be simplified into a more comprehensible post. I think this will benefit from downsizing your post, focusing more on specific points and not overloading it with complicated wording.
I know complex problems need complex solutions,but you also need to express your solution,no matter how complex,in such words that everyone understands it.
I know complex problems need complex solutions,but you also need to express your solution,no matter how complex,in such words that everyone understands it.
So maybe guys point out what is particularly unclear, but I mean, particularly?
I'd appreciate it if you can be more concise in your words and getting straight to the point. Reading long posts like this and having difficulty understanding your thoughts (even after multiple attempts at reading it) is a huge turnoff for me.
I know complex problems need complex solutions,but you also need to express your solution,no matter how complex,in such words that everyone understands it.
So maybe guys point out what is particularly unclear, but I mean, particularly?
Everything.
I know complex problems need complex solutions,but you also need to express your solution,no matter how complex,in such words that everyone understands it.
So maybe guys point out what is particularly unclear, but I mean, particularly?
Well,basicly everything.
It reads more then an article in an scientific journal then an online forum.
It's like Adam Curtis is amongst us. Uncanny.
  1. I feel like this post is overdone with words and paragraphs that just speak to me,"Oh he wrote tons of a paragraphs that make it look like he has done a lot of research on this post." No you don't need it that long to support your argument at all or even on other stuff like a speech or writing a book.
  2. Thanks to Chimera to his tl;dr I wouldn't even grabbed on reading the entire post since it's just seems like filler with seemingly one fact per paragraph. You need to grab people by being simple sometimes, FDR did it when Pearl Harbor was attacked and he got the American people to go to WWII with Japan motivated because he didn't want to make a long speech that was complicated and long to the whole country. Going complex on everything is like making a Rubric's cube not even that fun to solve as a accomplishment but tedious.
  3. For your overall argument: I honestly don't think that would work or would even be tried as a experiment. Halo or Microsoft doesn't need to do that, there's more factors when making a game then triple A pratices. There's the employees, the development cycle of the game and marketing. If you made everything treated as an indie dev it would not help get people to play this no matter how good or bad it is would mean the only way to know the game is if some random website tells you or found it at a store. You know what made Halo 3 to people the best Halo game ever? It was due to its marketing and using only these simple words, "Finish the fight"
@SaneMountain212, very fair points, but I see you rather simplify things. Nobody says things should be done like in churchianity, that somebody says so. One must always apply own reason, adapt to conditions and demands. But these are couple of things I thought could be minded as well in the process. Also sorry for the format. I just kind of tap into this writing style, trying to be precise, but as with each thing where precision attempts to take over, it opens field to even more mistakes.
Halo has the fortune of having a loving fandom. Address this fandom, Microsoft. Hear and understand what they say. Try to respond through shaping of your actions. If you will manage to convince the original audience - instead of just the new, much less demanding one, but also much more distracted, marketwise speaking - I doubt such a convincing act or production would lack the charm recognizable also to tertiary viewers. Allow yourself some freedom of experimentation, that is also a point. If you are worried for outcomes and making controversy, go for spinoffs, there is more tolerance for variety there, I suppose. I mean, let yourself.
The part I quoted could've been your entire post and people would've known what you were trying to say without the long thesis about counter-gaming culture which didn't really transition well into your Halo points.

I think 343 did do a lot of trend following and experimenting and a good portion of it failed in my opinion. I think their biggest success was Warzone and REQ packs which could be a good or bad thing depending on your views of Halo.

  1. Thanks to Chimera to his tl;dr I wouldn't even grabbed on reading the entire post
Where is this at?
LUKEPOWA wrote:
  1. Thanks to Chimera to his tl;dr I wouldn't even grabbed on reading the entire post
Where is this at?
The discord.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
Halo has the fortune of having a loving fandom. Address this fandom, Microsoft. Hear and understand what they say. Try to respond through shaping of your actions. If you will manage to convince the original audience - instead of just the new, much less demanding one, but also much more distracted, marketwise speaking - I doubt such a convincing act or production would lack the charm recognizable also to tertiary viewers. Allow yourself some freedom of experimentation, that is also a point. If you are worried for outcomes and making controversy, go for spinoffs, there is more tolerance for variety there, I suppose. I mean, let yourself.
The part I quoted could've been your entire post and people would've known what you were trying to say without the long thesis about counter-gaming culture which didn't really transition well into your Halo points.

I think 343 did do a lot of trend following and experimenting and a good portion of it failed in my opinion. I think their biggest success was Warzone and REQ packs which could be a good or bad thing depending on your views of Halo.

  1. Thanks to Chimera to his tl;dr I wouldn't even grabbed on reading the entire post
Where is this at?
On the Waypoint Discord Exenius made, here's the quote, "Tl;dr, he thinks he developed an idea for game development that is opposite to triple A practices and thinks microsoft should make games as if they were indie devs."
Quote:
On the Waypoint Discord Exenius made, here's the quote, "Tl;dr, he thinks he developed an idea for game development that is opposite to triple A practices and thinks microsoft should make games as if they were indie devs."
I would like to object to that simplification.

Gentlemen, I see you are uncomfortable in my presence, like I do not fit, do you feel like I should leave Waypoint or perhaps should we vote on it?
I know complex problems need complex solutions,but you also need to express your solution,no matter how complex,in such words that everyone understands it.
So maybe guys point out what is particularly unclear, but I mean, particularly?
It's how you phrase things. You often use necessary complex phrases for simple concepts. For example, you write "products of digital nature". What do you mean? If you mean games, why not just write "games"? If you mean software in general, then why not use "software"? Heck, you could at least write "digital products". But whatever you write, I find it hard to imagine what sensible reason could compel someone to write something as convoluted as "products of digital nature". Another example of unnecessary complexity is "providing digital products requiring highest contemporary technological standards". Why not just "making technologically advanced games"?

Another issue with phrasing is that some of the things you say don't even seem to make sense. For example, the sentence: "Alternative wing of the industry allows for wide variety of releases to be classified as belonging, some of them only on the basis of the legal terms, otherwise highly resemblant to the high caliber works." Belonging to what? It's like your thought cuts mid-sentence and wanders off to something else. Frankly, I don't understand the meaning of this sentence even after reading it multiple times.

The point is, you make highly unconventional word choices, use a lot of filler words, and sometimes have incoherent lines of text. This is very frustrating for the reader to parse, and in case of incoherent sentences, it doesn't make sense no matter how long one spends parsing.

I don't want to mock your writing style just for the sake of it. The problem is that it genuinely makes it difficult for people to understand you. Clearly, many people feel this way. Now, I don't want to speculate why you write as you do, but whatever the reason, you need to start considering the reader. You obviously have a lot of ideas, but that means nothing if you can't communicate them in a way that people will understand.

Here are a couple of tips:
  • Use common words that people understand.
  • Write short sentences, and avoid padding them with words that don't help you get your point across.
  • In short, favor the conventional and concise.
  • Read, and reread what you've written and ask yourself whether you could write it more clearly.
I hope the harshness of people's comments in this thread doesn't discourage you. You obviously put a lot of effort into your posts, and I appreciate that. But at the moment, that effort seems to be getting wasted, which is why I really encourage you to practice clarity in writing.
Quote:
On the Waypoint Discord Exenius made, here's the quote, "Tl;dr, he thinks he developed an idea for game development that is opposite to triple A practices and thinks microsoft should make games as if they were indie devs."
I would like to object to that simplification.

Gentlemen, I see you are uncomfortable in my presence, like I do not fit, do you feel like I should leave Waypoint or perhaps should we vote on it?
First, please stop the bolding your words it's not nesscessnary. Second I guess I should have not put that quote here so I'm sorry for that and shall take full responsibility for I should have asked in first place. Third, we aren't saying you should leave Waypoint or should here by a vote. We just want you to be more simple and get on to the point of your argument. Making your argument seem endless with multiple paragraphs isn't the right way to do it. Is some of it vital information to your post? Yes to make it appeal to people, should you need to put in everything you did into a long post everyone reads but want to get to the point? No, you don't need to and that's what we are trying to tell you.
@tsassi, thanks for the elaborate and clearly put tips! Y'know, I believe my convoluted style of writing really emerges from my convoluted personality, it happens kind of automatically as I try to outmaneuver in what I try to deliver, I do not know even what, some good misunderstanding opportunity? Which will happen anyway. When it comes to philosophy of why do I keep writing it despite - as you say - doing it for the sake of doing it, well, I do kind of hope to make a butterfly effect change, but on the other hand, this is something between a must and a lack of better choice. You may know I am not particularly invested in Halo, but for some reason, I am here and I keep trying, not because I love Halo, but because I am used to keeping trying. Maybe I also push too hard.
Some games are already doing this (and its not just indie games), but I think it depends largely on if the game is being led by a small, creative team/director or if it is being made by a committee. Like, for example, the Metal Gear Solid series and anything by Yoko Taro. These games are both experimental, kind of art-house as far as games go, and tend to stretch the possibilities of story telling and gameplay in interesting ways.

that being said, I think it would be extremely important if 343i left all of their experimenting to side stories and spin-offs. We have already seen what can happen if a mainstream title is given to the hands of an "auteur" and it wasn't pretty. *cough* last jedi *cough*

Personally, I think 343i can have a lot of fun with the Halo universe.
( ^_^)
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