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[Locked] Halo 6 Doesn't Need To Return To The Roots...

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L377UC3 wrote:
THE 6 SQAD wrote:
but h3s controlls feel realy slugish & cluncky compared to h5. h5s controlles are so good that i forget im holding the controller.
At some point, you also forgot how to spell.
THE 6 SQAD wrote:
plus this had to happen sommeday. 343 & or microsoft cant help that there fans refuse to move on. (butthurt) halo was becomeing stail. h5 still feels like an old school halo 2 me.
You just admitted Halo 5 feels stale. Quod Erat Demonstrandum. You ruined your own argument, genius.
no, im saying halo 3 was dull & the same as halo 2 almost. & that h5 feels like a true halo. & not some reskin halo. (halo 3) every halo had new features in multyplayer (not h3) & yes i am aware of equipment, but they dont count as there not player physic related. i didint c peapole compaighning in h2 when dual wealding & hijacking was added to halo
Halo's population is so low it's not even funny. Why? Because Halo has strayed too far from its original formula and it's now something else entirety. If Halo 6 keeps up with the micro-transactions, useless and unoriginal Spartan Abilities, botched advertising and development, its population will go down even farther. Halo's population was in the MILLIONS with Halo 3, but is only around TEN THOUSAND with Halo 5... really think that Halo can survive for much longer with 343 destroying everything that Halo was and ever stood for?
Don't think so.
Actually, Halo 3's population was huge, but now all those people are mostly grown and don't play half as much. It"s a new generation buddy, and all this little kids are playing things like COD and -Yoink- like that. Also, the was back when Xbox was far more popular that Plastation, but now everyone's buying the PS4, which as we all know, doesn't have Halo 5. So yea, no -Yoink- the population is lower.
You know, the average age of gamers is something like 31 years old, right? Meaning, the demographic that should be getting catered to is the OG DooM, Quake, and Halo guys. Not the upstart millennials who want CowaDoody 23: Modern Black Infinite Advanced Warfare Ops Ghosts with Dog AI 3.
Totally not a generalization of us people born in the 2000's.
I'm allowed to do that, I'm a millennial.

I can even give you my millennial card if you want to inspect it and make sure it is still valid, officer. /sarcasm
I don't care what you say, but either way, you are just saying that all of us are whiny brats "WU NEDS MI COD" when in fact many here are not, simple as that, I am not asking for any certification, no need to act smart about it. I am just stating my observation. Then again, should I give you a gold medal?
Please do, I like participation medals. They are so demeaning to me, but they are also very shiny. /sarcasm

And, I guess, my problem is, I didn't specify: a good portion of the current generation are the type who want games to be fast and full of action to appeal to their Michael Bay "I need constant action to not bore me" attitudes. There are still people that would be the hipsters, going against the trends that "define" this generation, such as me, a 18 year old who prefers classic DooM and Halo 2, but they are few and far between.
Ill have to make it silver though, gold is just so expensive these days... ;D

but on topic, that's the thing that gets me though, why do we have to make generalizations, I mean, I enjoy the newer Halos, but I still like the older ones as well, Halo 3 is my favorite classic, while Reach and 5 are tied for new. If 343 wants to "modernize Halo, they either need to make a spin off series with the classic style or make some dedicated classic playlists. I like new Halo, but even I would love to play some classic modes using the older way. Not everyone is anti-old.
KaneXX12 wrote:
Halo's population is so low it's not even funny. Why? Because Halo has strayed too far from its original formula and it's now something else entirety. If Halo 6 keeps up with the micro-transactions, useless and unoriginal Spartan Abilities, botched advertising and development, its population will go down even farther. Halo's population was in the MILLIONS with Halo 3, but is only around TEN THOUSAND with Halo 5... really think that Halo can survive for much longer with 343 destroying everything that Halo was and ever stood for?
Don't think so.
Fallacy one: Halo currently sits at number 9 in the top ten most popular games, and frequently climbs the list.
Fallacy two: Most people find games incredibly quick still. Far quicker than if there were only ten thousand.
Fallacy three: The exact population of the game is not known and cannot be known as there is no population counter.

Consider your argument debunked.
Well, since there is no way to know Halo 5's actual population, we can infer several things. Halo 2, Halo 3, Reach, and Halo 4 showed active multiplayer population counters. Since the MCC and Halo 5 do not, I'd say either 343 is lazy and just doesn't want to do the extra work to make a public population display, or they know the populations of their current games are most likely despicably low and would be humiliating to show. Both are likely assumptions.
The most likely reason for the counter's discontinuation is Halo 4's sharp decline in population, not MCC or Halo 5, which came after the fact. There is also the speed at which Halo 5 makes matches to consider. And my point about the population counter was addressed to your claim. As the statistics aren't public, the only place you could have gotten that ten thousand figure is a guess.

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Like you said, Halo 5 is currently ranked as number nine on Xbox One's Most Popular (Most Bought) Games, NOT TOP PLAYED, TOP PURCHASED.
Where on the site does it say this? As long as I've used that list as a reference, I've never seen it specify either. But there are other factors. For one thing, the list would not fluctuate so frequently if it were based on most bought. You've also created another fallacy. You say here that the list is of games most bought, and below you claim that MCC had more sales than Halo 5. If that were true, wouldn't it be higher on the list than Halo 5? Last I checked, it is not.

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Halo 3 proudly boasted of it's active population of millions of players and no other game could come close to the success of Halo in 2001 to 2007.
I am aware of this. But Halo 5 is not to blame for the series' decline in popularity. That would be Halo 4.

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The Bungie forums were always active, and had hundreds of thousands of active posters.
Hundreds of thousands of posters? Perhaps. Active posters? I doubt that. During my time there, I saw no sign of that many people posting regularly. I'm beginning to notice a pattern here. You have a habit of using guestimate numbers, or sometimes ones that are completely made up. You can't just use some accurate numbers and then fill in the gaps with unconfirmed figures and speculation. You need confirmed facts.

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Halo's 'golden age' brought lots of Machinima directors into the universe too, so let's take a look at that.
I am aware of Machinima's popularity, being a huge fan of Arby 'n' the Chief myself. How is this relevant?

Quote:
Red VS Blue and Arby 'n' The Chief (AnTC is pretty vulgar, be advised) are arguably the best Halo Machinima of all time.
  • (First Episode) Arby 'n' The Chief - S1 E1 (Released January 7th, 2008) - "Pilot" [Link] - 7,463,291 Views
  • (Recent Episode) Arby 'n' The Chief - S8 E4 (Released April 6th, 2016) - "Bad Dream" [Link] - 20,009 Views, DOWN 7,443,282
  • (First Episode) Red VS Blue - S1 E1 (Released June 3rd, 2008) - "Why Are We Here?" [Link] - 8,072,426 Views
  • (Recent Episode) Red VS Blue - S13 E20 (Released October 19th, 2015) - "The End" [Link] - 844,086 Views, DOWN 7,228,340
According to two of Halo's most popular Machinimas, Halo's fanbase has gone down an estimated SEVEN MILLION FANS.
Please tell me you're not serious. You cannot just take the difference in views between the oldest and newest videos and say state it as a decrease. The first episode of Arby and Chief was released eight years before the most recent one. It has been accumulating views for nearly a decade versus a couple of months for the newest. Of course it has more views! Not to mention season eight is on his own lesser-known channel as opposed to Machinima itself.

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Now, let's look at Halo's overall sales since Combat Evolved.
  • 2001 - Halo: Combat Evolved - 5.5 Million
  • 2004 - Halo 2 - 8.2 Million
  • 2007 - Halo 3 - 12.06 Million
  • 2009 - Halo Wars - 2.54 Million
  • 2009 - Halo 3: ODST - 6.32 Million
  • 2010 - Halo: Reach - 9.76 Million
  • 2011 - Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary - 2.37 Million
  • 2012 - Halo 4 - 9.52 Million (343's first Halo game.)
  • 2014 - Halo: The Master Chief Collection - 2.61 Million (Down 27% from their previous game.)
  • 2015 - Halo 5 - 1 Million... WORST SELLING HALO GAME OF ALL TIME! SALES DOWN NEARLY 10% MORE!
According to this Waypointer, Halo 5's population, at its highest, could be 42,488 ACTIVE PLAYERS, which is absolutely pathetic compared the earlier titles.
Once again, you are comparing products with varying advantages in years over each other. You cannot compare all time sales fairly between a game that has been out for 7 years versus 7 months. Honestly, this is common sense. But lets backtrack a little. Halo 5's unit sales have never been released by 343. Therefore you cannot use any such number as an accurate figure. One million is mathematically impossible compared to the game's profit. And as I've stated above, you are contradicting yourself by saying the list mentioned up there is by sales, yet also claiming MCC had more sales.

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It's an absolute fact that Halo 5 is not only the worst selling Halo of all time, but it's safe to say it has the lowest population post-launch.
Both of those statements are absolutely false. Halo 4 had the lowest post-launch population, and there is confirmed data to support this claim. The only data we have on Halo 5 is that it broke week one sales records of all previous games in the series. Nothing you've stated thus far supports your claim about Halo 5's population.
KaneXX12 wrote:
Halo's population is so low it's not even funny. Why? Because Halo has strayed too far from its original formula and it's now something else entirety. If Halo 6 keeps up with the micro-transactions, useless and unoriginal Spartan Abilities, botched advertising and development, its population will go down even farther. Halo's population was in the MILLIONS with Halo 3, but is only around TEN THOUSAND with Halo 5... really think that Halo can survive for much longer with 343 destroying everything that Halo was and ever stood for?
Don't think so.
Actually, Halo 3's population was huge, but now all those people are mostly grown and don't play half as much. It"s a new generation buddy, and all this little kids are playing things like COD and -Yoink- like that. Also, the was back when Xbox was far more popular that Plastation, but now everyone's buying the PS4, which as we all know, doesn't have Halo 5. So yea, no -Yoink- the population is lower.
You know, the average age of gamers is something like 31 years old, right? Meaning, the demographic that should be getting catered to is the OG DooM, Quake, and Halo guys. Not the upstart millennials who want CowaDoody 23: Modern Black Infinite Advanced Warfare Ops Ghosts with Dog AI 3.
Totally not a generalization of us people born in the 2000's.
I'm allowed to do that, I'm a millennial.

I can even give you my millennial card if you want to inspect it and make sure it is still valid, officer. /sarcasm
I don't care what you say, but either way, you are just saying that all of us are whiny brats "WU NEDS MI COD" when in fact many here are not, simple as that, I am not asking for any certification, no need to act smart about it. I am just stating my observation. Then again, should I give you a gold medal?
Our generation is a bunch of selfish self entitled whining little tyrants that buy into everything the establishment shoves down our throats while begging for more brainwashing and for more extremes to satisfy our brainless ideals and fads. We are the greatest disgrace within the last 1000 years yet striving to be great heroes and have our names remembered through out history yet we can't get our heads out of the sand to see that all our social justice bull is exactly what the establishment wants us to focus on. We are literally slaves to the establishment and doing the exact things they want. By fighting for individual freedom we end up establishing the foundations to our enslavement. Our generation sucks.
This is a forum for a video game, so take it down a notch. If you want to rant about retrograde new-age attitudes, then I recommend you and your conspiracy crap visit the Youtube comments section instead.
I have every right to gripe if it effects me directly and destroys the things I love. In this case Social Justice Ideals are effecting Halo. 343 could do with a good cleansing of all recent university students. We want a game not a propaganda tool to further ones ideals.
Multiplayer wise, 343 has done a good job for Halo 5. For Halo 6, give us Firefight on day one!

Single player wise, just increase the portion of Master Chief and give us a portion of Arbiter.

Boom! Problem solved.
KaneXX12 wrote:
Halo's population is so low it's not even funny. Why? Because Halo has strayed too far from its original formula and it's now something else entirety. If Halo 6 keeps up with the micro-transactions, useless and unoriginal Spartan Abilities, botched advertising and development, its population will go down even farther. Halo's population was in the MILLIONS with Halo 3, but is only around TEN THOUSAND with Halo 5... really think that Halo can survive for much longer with 343 destroying everything that Halo was and ever stood for?
Don't think so.
Actually, Halo 3's population was huge, but now all those people are mostly grown and don't play half as much. It"s a new generation buddy, and all this little kids are playing things like COD and -Yoink- like that. Also, the was back when Xbox was far more popular that Plastation, but now everyone's buying the PS4, which as we all know, doesn't have Halo 5. So yea, no -Yoink- the population is lower.
You know, the average age of gamers is something like 31 years old, right? Meaning, the demographic that should be getting catered to is the OG DooM, Quake, and Halo guys. Not the upstart millennials who want CowaDoody 23: Modern Black Infinite Advanced Warfare Ops Ghosts with Dog AI 3.
Totally not a generalization of us people born in the 2000's.
I'm allowed to do that, I'm a millennial.

I can even give you my millennial card if you want to inspect it and make sure it is still valid, officer. /sarcasm
I don't care what you say, but either way, you are just saying that all of us are whiny brats "WU NEDS MI COD" when in fact many here are not, simple as that, I am not asking for any certification, no need to act smart about it. I am just stating my observation. Then again, should I give you a gold medal?
Our generation is a bunch of selfish self entitled whining little tyrants that buy into everything the establishment shoves down our throats while begging for more brainwashing and for more extremes to satisfy our brainless ideals and fads. We are the greatest disgrace within the last 1000 years yet striving to be great heroes and have our names remembered through out history yet we can't get our heads out of the sand to see that all our social justice bull is exactly what the establishment wants us to focus on. We are literally slaves to the establishment and doing the exact things they want. By fighting for individual freedom we end up establishing the foundations to our enslavement. Our generation sucks.
This is a forum for a video game, so take it down a notch. If you want to rant about retrograde new-age attitudes, then I recommend you and your conspiracy crap visit the Youtube comments section instead.
I have every right to gripe if it effects me directly and destroys the things I love. In this case Social Justice Ideals are effecting Halo. 343 could do with a good cleansing of all recent university students. We want a game not a propaganda tool to further ones ideals.
What? Dude, chill out... This is a video game we are talking about, we don't need to get into the ideologies of this or past generations. I truth, the new generation is causing little things, newer people may also have great ideas you have not seen yet, you can't judge someone for being born later then others.
Halo's population is so low it's not even funny. Why? Because Halo has strayed too far from its original formula and it's now something else entirety. If Halo 6 keeps up with the micro-transactions, useless and unoriginal Spartan Abilities, botched advertising and development, its population will go down even farther. Halo's population was in the MILLIONS with Halo 3, but is only around TEN THOUSAND with Halo 5... really think that Halo can survive for much longer with 343 destroying everything that Halo was and ever stood for?
Don't think so.
Actually, Halo 3's population was huge, but now all those people are mostly grown and don't play half as much. It"s a new generation buddy, and all this little kids are playing things like COD and -Yoink- like that. Also, the was back when Xbox was far more popular that Plastation, but now everyone's buying the PS4, which as we all know, doesn't have Halo 5. So yea, no -Yoink- the population is lower.
You know, the average age of gamers is something like 31 years old, right? Meaning, the demographic that should be getting catered to is the OG DooM, Quake, and Halo guys. Not the upstart millennials who want CowaDoody 23: Modern Black Infinite Advanced Warfare Ops Ghosts with Dog AI 3.
Totally not a generalization of us people born in the 2000's.
I'm allowed to do that, I'm a millennial.

I can even give you my millennial card if you want to inspect it and make sure it is still valid, officer. /sarcasm
I don't care what you say, but either way, you are just saying that all of us are whiny brats "WU NEDS MI COD" when in fact many here are not, simple as that, I am not asking for any certification, no need to act smart about it. I am just stating my observation. Then again, should I give you a gold medal?
Please do, I like participation medals. They are so demeaning to me, but they are also very shiny. /sarcasm

And, I guess, my problem is, I didn't specify: a good portion of the current generation are the type who want games to be fast and full of action to appeal to their Michael Bay "I need constant action to not bore me" attitudes. There are still people that would be the hipsters, going against the trends that "define" this generation, such as me, a 18 year old who prefers classic DooM and Halo 2, but they are few and far between.
Ill have to make it silver though, gold is just so expensive these days... ;D

but on topic, that's the thing that gets me though, why do we have to make generalizations, I mean, I enjoy the newer Halos, but I still like the older ones as well, Halo 3 is my favorite classic, while Reach and 5 are tied for new. If 343 wants to "modernize Halo, they either need to make a spin off series with the classic style or make some dedicated classic playlists. I like new Halo, but even I would love to play some classic modes using the older way. Not everyone is anti-old.
And again, as I said, not everybody who likes the new games are against the old games; that being said, if you take a look around at the threads asking for Halo to return to basics, mostly everybody who is saying the opposite are bashing on the older games, saying that Halo 5 is the way of the future. Those are the people who I am talking about, not the edgelords who prefer the old games, and not the "I don't cares", who play whatever they feel like playing.

And a problem with a classic spin off is that it is rather insulting, if you think about it. It's basically saying, "We don't care about the game play that created the franchise, but these nostalgic peons do, so let's give them a spin off, instead of making the mainline series back to how the mainline series should be playing like, i.e, a logical progression from Halo 3 to Halo 4." Halo Reach was a spin off and incorporated these abilities; had the game not influenced Halo 4 and future Halo games as it did, I wouldn't care, because it was not a mainline Halo game. But now, Halo 4 and Halo 5 are taking cues from a spin off game that the community didn't really like, rather than pick up from where the mainline games left, i.e, Halo 3. That to me is the biggest mistake that 343i did, the one that influenced all of their current mistakes, in my view. Rather than pick up from Halo 3 gameplay-wise, they instead picked up from Reach, a game that mostly everybody who was competitive or lore crazy disliked.
THE 6 SQAD wrote:
no, im saying halo 3 was dull & the same as halo 2 almost.
So if it feels dull and the same as Halo 2, and you proceed to say that Halo 5 feels like Halo 2...using the transitive property - that means that Halo 5 feels like Halo 3, which you said was dull. So Halo 5 still feels dull, which I can get behind, m8.
THE 6 SQAD wrote:
& that h5 feels like a true halo. & not some reskin halo. (halo 3)
No, be more vague, nebulous and incomprehensible.
THE 6 SQAD wrote:
every halo had new features in multyplayer (not h3) & yes i am aware of equipment, but they dont count as there not player physic related.
...What??
THE 6 SQAD wrote:
i didint c peapole compaighning in h2 when dual wealding & hijacking was added to halo
Going by your grammar, I'm half inclined to believe you weren't even alive when Halo 2 added dual wielding and hijacking. But no. You're wrong. Hilariously wrong. Halo 2 was absolutely panned - panned for reasons that still hold up today. Sure it's respected, but compared to its predecessor, the game can be described as a mess in so many ways.

You want to hear someone complaining about Halo 2? How about Bungie itself?
THE 6 SQAD wrote:
L377UC3 wrote:
THE 6 SQAD wrote:
but h3s controlls feel realy slugish & cluncky compared to h5. h5s controlles are so good that i forget im holding the controller.
At some point, you also forgot how to spell.
THE 6 SQAD wrote:
plus this had to happen sommeday. 343 & or microsoft cant help that there fans refuse to move on. (butthurt) halo was becomeing stail. h5 still feels like an old school halo 2 me.
You just admitted Halo 5 feels stale. Quod Erat Demonstrandum. You ruined your own argument, genius.
no, im saying halo 3 was dull & the same as halo 2 almost. & that h5 feels like a true halo. & not some reskin halo. (halo 3) every halo had new features in multyplayer (not h3) & yes i am aware of equipment, but they dont count as there not player physic related. i didint c peapole compaighning in h2 when dual wealding & hijacking was added to halo
In other words, it doesn't matter what changes are made, if they're not player mechanics / feature related, and not numerous enough, it doesn't count. Because the only way to make a sequel is to distinguish it enough from it's predecessor that it could qualify as an entirely new IP, am I right? Or is it just not enough as long as you do not agree with it?

Amazing how many times it has to be said.
Nobody here is asking for a reskin, or, very very few, can count the ones I've seen over the last nine years on one hand. However, I and everyone who agree with me, do not see well with the current direction Halo is heading. We don't like the modern shooter route, but would like a Halo that use the originals as inspiration and add onto that.

You probably didn't look hard enough for those complaints then, as they indeed existed. Even then, those features do not impact gameplay nearly as much as any of the current trendy gimmicks shoehorned in as of late. Heck, Doom even reminded me why I wanted static health back to Halo, having read an article of how detrimental degenerating health actually is to the challenge of single player and how difficult it is for developers to make encounters that matter and aren't tedious to play through.
EXpoZuR wrote:
If you think Halo 4 was a great game you've lost all credibility
I agree with this guy
KaneXX12 wrote:
Halo's population is so low it's not even funny. Why? Because Halo has strayed too far from its original formula and it's now something else entirety. If Halo 6 keeps up with the micro-transactions, useless and unoriginal Spartan Abilities, botched advertising and development, its population will go down even farther. Halo's population was in the MILLIONS with Halo 3, but is only around TEN THOUSAND with Halo 5... really think that Halo can survive for much longer with 343 destroying everything that Halo was and ever stood for?
Don't think so.
Actually, Halo 3's population was huge, but now all those people are mostly grown and don't play half as much. It"s a new generation buddy, and all this little kids are playing things like COD and -Yoink- like that. Also, the was back when Xbox was far more popular that Plastation, but now everyone's buying the PS4, which as we all know, doesn't have Halo 5. So yea, no -Yoink- the population is lower.
You know, the average age of gamers is something like 31 years old, right? Meaning, the demographic that should be getting catered to is the OG DooM, Quake, and Halo guys. Not the upstart millennials who want CowaDoody 23: Modern Black Infinite Advanced Warfare Ops Ghosts with Dog AI 3.
Totally not a generalization of us people born in the 2000's.
I'm allowed to do that, I'm a millennial.

I can even give you my millennial card if you want to inspect it and make sure it is still valid, officer. /sarcasm
I don't care what you say, but either way, you are just saying that all of us are whiny brats "WU NEDS MI COD" when in fact many here are not, simple as that, I am not asking for any certification, no need to act smart about it. I am just stating my observation. Then again, should I give you a gold medal?
Our generation is a bunch of selfish self entitled whining little tyrants that buy into everything the establishment shoves down our throats while begging for more brainwashing and for more extremes to satisfy our brainless ideals and fads. We are the greatest disgrace within the last 1000 years yet striving to be great heroes and have our names remembered through out history yet we can't get our heads out of the sand to see that all our social justice bull is exactly what the establishment wants us to focus on. We are literally slaves to the establishment and doing the exact things they want. By fighting for individual freedom we end up establishing the foundations to our enslavement. Our generation sucks.
This is a forum for a video game, so take it down a notch. If you want to rant about retrograde new-age attitudes, then I recommend you and your conspiracy crap visit the Youtube comments section instead.
I have every right to gripe if it effects me directly and destroys the things I love. In this case Social Justice Ideals are effecting Halo. 343 could do with a good cleansing of all recent university students. We want a game not a propaganda tool to further ones ideals.
What? Dude, chill out... This is a video game we are talking about, we don't need to get into the ideologies of this or past generations. I truth, the new generation is causing little things, newer people may also have great ideas you have not seen yet, you can't judge someone for being born later then others.
I'm still on point. I'm addressing the topic of younger generation that plays Halo or in the case I was giving a remark towards my generation. I'm chill... Why are you feeling threatened? Hope what I said isn't "triggering" you ;)

The point I'm making which seems to elude you is that some of the undertones or sorta hidden signs that Halo is being made by my generation is the seemingly lazy Aproach to DLC updates and how everything is skinned. Unfortunately allot of new fanboys fresh off the CoD/Titanfall train prove that our generation sucks as they have no clue as to a great game and that they all average around the 15-21 mark.

If you want to create a great game than hire on hard working humbled conservatives. I'm serious. The future of Halo depends on having humbled hard workers that strive to make quality and follow through with what fans gravitate to.

Clearly Fans including myself seek hardworking developers. With Halo 5 it only reflects laziness with all the skins.
L377UC3 wrote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
Fallacy one: Halo currently sits at number 9 in the top ten most popular games, and frequently climbs the list.
  • Irrelevant if true. Halo dominated Xbox Live in an equally (perhaps more) competitive FPS market in the past. The use of the phrase "sit at" is inappropriate. "Has dramatically fallen down to" would be more apt considering this series' history.
It is relevant because it shows that Halo's population is not so despicable as he'd like to believe. After all, my whole purpose in that post was to point out the flaws in his logic. Of which there are many, if you check out his counter reply.
Quote:
  • Citation needed. What "most popular games" list are you even looking at?
The Xbox store, sorted by most popular games.
Quote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
Fallacy two: Most people find games incredibly quick still. Far quicker than if there were only ten thousand.
  • Pro-tip. No one who talks about population gives a damn about finding games quickly. Rather, it's an indication of how many people still enjoy this game and how much power the series still has to keep people playing. Consider this in the future.
I'm not saying that finding games quickly makes population meaningless. I'm saying that the matchmaking would be slower if the population were so low.
Quote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
Fallacy three: The exact population of the game is not known and cannot be known as there is no population counter.
    • Smart move by 343, eh?
  • The exact population has never been known even with Bungie's more accurate counters. However, its possible to infer Halo 5's population using more roundabout ways than are convenient, considering how easy it would be to institute a population counter. Take the list of games you mentioned earlier. See if you can find population data on games 8 and 10. You will likely find that this places Halo 5's population in the tens of thousands. Multiple tens of thousands, perhaps, but a five digit number, nonetheless.
-Yes it was a smart move. In case any game in the future did as badly as Halo 4. Which we don't know because the counter wasn't implemented in the first place. However, this is reflective of Halo 4's poor performance, not Halo 5's.
-Remember again that my point was to point out his logic flaw. Even if you're right about it being five digits, which I'm inclined to disbelieve, he said ten thousand, not multiple. Additionally, its position on the list fluctuates constantly.
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Consider your
counter
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argument debunked.
I'll give you that one. But now you can take this advice.
KaneXX12 wrote:
L377UC3 wrote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
Fallacy one: Halo currently sits at number 9 in the top ten most popular games, and frequently climbs the list.
  • Irrelevant if true. Halo dominated Xbox Live in an equally (perhaps more) competitive FPS market in the past. The use of the phrase "sit at" is inappropriate. "Has dramatically fallen down to" would be more apt considering this series' history.
It is relevant because it shows that Halo's population is not so despicable as he'd like to believe. After all, my whole purpose in that post was to point out the flaws in his logic. Of which there are many, if you check out his counter reply.

-Remember again that my point was to point out his logic flaw. Even if you're right about it being five digits, which I'm inclined to disbelieve, he said ten thousand, not multiple. Additionally, its position on the list fluctuates constantly.
That depends on your definition of despicable. As of right now, it sits directly behind Rainbow Six: Siege of all games - a better shooter than H5 imo, but an incredibly niche title comparatively speaking. I couldn't find population metrics for it, but I highly doubt it sports 100,000+ players on a regular basis. Do you challenge that assertion? Directly behind Halo 5 is Battlefield 4, a three year old game, which regularly chugs in at ~35k players on Xbox One. Sad numbers when we consider what Halo 3 was able to accomplish after three years in another cutthroat shooter market. More than 10,000, clearly. Not incredibly impressive, however.

Moreover, I feel it necessary to ask, how frequently does Halo 5 climb - and how high?
KaneXX12 wrote:
Quote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
Fallacy two: Most people find games incredibly quick still. Far quicker than if there were only ten thousand.
  • Pro-tip. No one who talks about population gives a damn about finding games quickly. Rather, it's an indication of how many people still enjoy this game and how much power the series still has to keep people playing. Consider this in the future.
I'm not saying that finding games quickly makes population meaningless. I'm saying that the matchmaking would be slower if the population were so low.
That's not particularly easy to discern one way or another, using matchmaking speeds to gauge population. 10k is, as previously mentioned, low, but what effect would we expect that diverges significantly from a more accurate 50k? Speeds 5x faster??
KaneXX12 wrote:
Quote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
Fallacy three: The exact population of the game is not known and cannot be known as there is no population counter.
    • Smart move by 343, eh?
  • The exact population has never been known even with Bungie's more accurate counters. However, its possible to infer Halo 5's population using more roundabout ways than are convenient, considering how easy it would be to institute a population counter. Take the list of games you mentioned earlier. See if you can find population data on games 8 and 10. You will likely find that this places Halo 5's population in the tens of thousands. Multiple tens of thousands, perhaps, but a five digit number, nonetheless.
-Yes it was a smart move. In case any game in the future did as badly as Halo 4. Which we don't know because the counter wasn't implemented in the first place. However, this is reflective of Halo 4's poor performance, not Halo 5's.
- And the MCC.
- I have yet to be convinced there's a significant difference in performance.
L377UC3 wrote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
L377UC3 wrote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
Fallacy one: Halo currently sits at number 9 in the top ten most popular games, and frequently climbs the list.
  • Irrelevant if true. Halo dominated Xbox Live in an equally (perhaps more) competitive FPS market in the past. The use of the phrase "sit at" is inappropriate. "Has dramatically fallen down to" would be more apt considering this series' history.
It is relevant because it shows that Halo's population is not so despicable as he'd like to believe. After all, my whole purpose in that post was to point out the flaws in his logic. Of which there are many, if you check out his counter reply.

-Remember again that my point was to point out his logic flaw. Even if you're right about it being five digits, which I'm inclined to disbelieve, he said ten thousand, not multiple. Additionally, its position on the list fluctuates constantly.
That depends on your definition of despicable. As of right now, it sits directly behind Rainbow Six: Siege of all games - a better shooter than H5 imo, but an incredibly niche title comparatively speaking. I couldn't find population metrics for it, but I highly doubt it sports 100,000+ players on a regular basis. Do you challenge that assertion? Directly behind Halo 5 is Battlefield 4, a three year old game, which regularly chugs in at ~35k players on Xbox One. Sad numbers when we consider what Halo 3 was able to accomplish after three years in another cutthroat shooter market. More than 10,000, clearly. Not incredibly impressive, however.
Although I don't believe Halo 5's population is below 100,000, that's besides the point. I said he had a fallacy in logic by outright claiming Halo 5 had a population of ten thousand. Especially considering he had absolutely no evidence. You've just agreed that it is more than 10,000, so you are indirectly agreeing that he was wrong. I'm not speculating about the exact population because I know it would be inaccurate. I was pointing out his mistake. I was surprised to see Battlefield that high as it was at the bottom of the page up until this week.

Quote:
Moreover, I feel it necessary to ask, how frequently does Halo 5 climb - and how high?
I check the list about once a week cause my friend likes to see whether or not it's beating Fallout. One check I made two weeks ago, I saw it was up to number six again. And that's only as high as I've seen it one time fairly recently. And again, I only mentioned the list to show that guy Halo 5 isn't doing as badly as he thinks.

Quote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
Quote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
Fallacy two: Most people find games incredibly quick still. Far quicker than if there were only ten thousand.
  • Pro-tip. No one who talks about population gives a damn about finding games quickly. Rather, it's an indication of how many people still enjoy this game and how much power the series still has to keep people playing. Consider this in the future.
I'm not saying that finding games quickly makes population meaningless. I'm saying that the matchmaking would be slower if the population were so low.
That's not particularly easy to discern one way or another, using matchmaking speeds to gauge population. 10k is, as previously mentioned, low, but what effect would we expect that diverges significantly from a more accurate 50k? Speeds 5x faster??
I doubt that there is an exact multiplicative relation. But take Halo 3 around the time Halo 4 came out. It took several minutes to find a match. Or take Halo Reach right now. Potentially several minutes once more to find a match. Meanwhile Halo 5 creates them almost instantaneously. Finding a game fast is largely a sign of many other people also looking for a game.

Quote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
Quote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
Fallacy three: The exact population of the game is not known and cannot be known as there is no population counter.
    • Smart move by 343, eh?
  • The exact population has never been known even with Bungie's more accurate counters. However, its possible to infer Halo 5's population using more roundabout ways than are convenient, considering how easy it would be to institute a population counter. Take the list of games you mentioned earlier. See if you can find population data on games 8 and 10. You will likely find that this places Halo 5's population in the tens of thousands. Multiple tens of thousands, perhaps, but a five digit number, nonetheless.
-Yes it was a smart move. In case any game in the future did as badly as Halo 4. Which we don't know because the counter wasn't implemented in the first place. However, this is reflective of Halo 4's poor performance, not Halo 5's.
- And the MCC.
- I have yet to be convinced there's a significant difference in performance.
-MCC's population counter too never existed, because of Halo 4's being used to point out the population decline. Same as why Halo 5 never had one.
-This neogaf post shows Halo 4's population drop in detail, with direct images from Halocharts as the source.
KaneXX12 wrote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
Halo's population is so low it's not even funny. Why? Because Halo has strayed too far from its original formula and it's now something else entirety. If Halo 6 keeps up with the micro-transactions, useless and unoriginal Spartan Abilities, botched advertising and development, its population will go down even farther. Halo's population was in the MILLIONS with Halo 3, but is only around TEN THOUSAND with Halo 5... really think that Halo can survive for much longer with 343 destroying everything that Halo was and ever stood for?
Don't think so.
Fallacy one: Halo currently sits at number 9 in the top ten most popular games, and frequently climbs the list.
Fallacy two: Most people find games incredibly quick still. Far quicker than if there were only ten thousand.
Fallacy three: The exact population of the game is not known and cannot be known as there is no population counter.

Consider your argument debunked.
Well, since there is no way to know Halo 5's actual population, we can infer several things. Halo 2, Halo 3, Reach, and Halo 4 showed active multiplayer population counters. Since the MCC and Halo 5 do not, I'd say either 343 is lazy and just doesn't want to do the extra work to make a public population display, or they know the populations of their current games are most likely despicably low and would be humiliating to show. Both are likely assumptions.
The most likely reason for the counter's discontinuation is Halo 4's sharp decline in population, not MCC or Halo 5, which came after the fact. There is also the speed at which Halo 5 makes matches to consider. And my point about the population counter was addressed to your claim. As the statistics aren't public, the only place you could have gotten that ten thousand figure is a guess.

Quote:
Like you said, Halo 5 is currently ranked as number nine on Xbox One's Most Popular (Most Bought) Games, NOT TOP PLAYED, TOP PURCHASED.
Where on the site does it say this? As long as I've used that list as a reference, I've never seen it specify either. But there are other factors. For one thing, the list would not fluctuate so frequently if it were based on most bought. You've also created another fallacy. You say here that the list is of games most bought, and below you claim that MCC had more sales than Halo 5. If that were true, wouldn't it be higher on the list than Halo 5? Last I checked, it is not.

Quote:
Halo 3 proudly boasted of it's active population of millions of players and no other game could come close to the success of Halo in 2001 to 2007.
I am aware of this. But Halo 5 is not to blame for the series' decline in popularity. That would be Halo 4.

Quote:
The Bungie forums were always active, and had hundreds of thousands of active posters.
Hundreds of thousands of posters? Perhaps. Active posters? I doubt that. During my time there, I saw no sign of that many people posting regularly. I'm beginning to notice a pattern here. You have a habit of using guestimate numbers, or sometimes ones that are completely made up. You can't just use some accurate numbers and then fill in the gaps with unconfirmed figures and speculation. You need confirmed facts.

Quote:
Halo's 'golden age' brought lots of Machinima directors into the universe too, so let's take a look at that.
I am aware of Machinima's popularity, being a huge fan of Arby 'n' the Chief myself. How is this relevant?

Quote:
Red VS Blue and Arby 'n' The Chief (AnTC is pretty vulgar, be advised) are arguably the best Halo Machinima of all time.
  • (First Episode) Arby 'n' The Chief - S1 E1 (Released January 7th, 2008) - "Pilot" [Link] - 7,463,291 Views
  • (Recent Episode) Arby 'n' The Chief - S8 E4 (Released April 6th, 2016) - "Bad Dream" [Link] - 20,009 Views, DOWN 7,443,282
  • (First Episode) Red VS Blue - S1 E1 (Released June 3rd, 2008) - "Why Are We Here?" [Link] - 8,072,426 Views
  • (Recent Episode) Red VS Blue - S13 E20 (Released October 19th, 2015) - "The End" [Link] - 844,086 Views, DOWN 7,228,340
According to two of Halo's most popular Machinimas, Halo's fanbase has gone down an estimated SEVEN MILLION FANS.
Please tell me you're not serious. You cannot just take the difference in views between the oldest and newest videos and say state it as a decrease. The first episode of Arby and Chief was released eight years before the most recent one. It has been accumulating views for nearly a decade versus a couple of months for the newest. Of course it has more views! Not to mention season eight is on his own lesser-known channel as opposed to Machinima itself.

Quote:
Now, let's look at Halo's overall sales since Combat Evolved.
  • 2001 - Halo: Combat Evolved - 5.5 Million
  • 2004 - Halo 2 - 8.2 Million
  • 2007 - Halo 3 - 12.06 Million
  • 2009 - Halo Wars - 2.54 Million
  • 2009 - Halo 3: ODST - 6.32 Million
  • 2010 - Halo: Reach - 9.76 Million
  • 2011 - Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary - 2.37 Million
  • 2012 - Halo 4 - 9.52 Million (343's first Halo game.)
  • 2014 - Halo: The Master Chief Collection - 2.61 Million (Down 27% from their previous game.)
  • 2015 - Halo 5 - 1 Million... WORST SELLING HALO GAME OF ALL TIME! SALES DOWN NEARLY 10% MORE!
According to this Waypointer, Halo 5's population, at its highest, could be 42,488 ACTIVE PLAYERS, which is absolutely pathetic compared the earlier titles.
Once again, you are comparing products with varying advantages in years over each other. You cannot compare all time sales fairly between a game that has been out for 7 years versus 7 months. Honestly, this is common sense. But lets backtrack a little. Halo 5's unit sales have never been released by 343. Therefore you cannot use any such number as an accurate figure. One million is mathematically impossible compared to the game's profit. And as I've stated above, you are contradicting yourself by saying the list mentioned up there is by sales, yet also claiming MCC had more sales.

Quote:
It's an absolute fact that Halo 5 is not only the worst selling Halo of all time, but it's safe to say it has the lowest population post-launch.
Both of those statements are absolutely false. Halo 4 had the lowest post-launch population, and there is confirmed data to support this claim. The only data we have on Halo 5 is that it broke week one sales records of all previous games in the series. Nothing you've stated thus far supports your claim about Halo 5's population.
Halo 5 broke all previous sales records by including the limited edition items in the sales and not purely copies of the game sold. Very important piece you left out there.
Benti86 wrote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
Halo's population is so low it's not even funny. Why? Because Halo has strayed too far from its original formula and it's now something else entirety. If Halo 6 keeps up with the micro-transactions, useless and unoriginal Spartan Abilities, botched advertising and development, its population will go down even farther. Halo's population was in the MILLIONS with Halo 3, but is only around TEN THOUSAND with Halo 5... really think that Halo can survive for much longer with 343 destroying everything that Halo was and ever stood for?
Don't think so.
Fallacy one: Halo currently sits at number 9 in the top ten most popular games, and frequently climbs the list.
Fallacy two: Most people find games incredibly quick still. Far quicker than if there were only ten thousand.
Fallacy three: The exact population of the game is not known and cannot be known as there is no population counter.

Consider your argument debunked.
Well, since there is no way to know Halo 5's actual population, we can infer several things. Halo 2, Halo 3, Reach, and Halo 4 showed active multiplayer population counters. Since the MCC and Halo 5 do not, I'd say either 343 is lazy and just doesn't want to do the extra work to make a public population display, or they know the populations of their current games are most likely despicably low and would be humiliating to show. Both are likely assumptions.
The most likely reason for the counter's discontinuation is Halo 4's sharp decline in population, not MCC or Halo 5, which came after the fact. There is also the speed at which Halo 5 makes matches to consider. And my point about the population counter was addressed to your claim. As the statistics aren't public, the only place you could have gotten that ten thousand figure is a guess.

Quote:
Like you said, Halo 5 is currently ranked as number nine on Xbox One's Most Popular (Most Bought) Games, NOT TOP PLAYED, TOP PURCHASED.
Where on the site does it say this? As long as I've used that list as a reference, I've never seen it specify either. But there are other factors. For one thing, the list would not fluctuate so frequently if it were based on most bought. You've also created another fallacy. You say here that the list is of games most bought, and below you claim that MCC had more sales than Halo 5. If that were true, wouldn't it be higher on the list than Halo 5? Last I checked, it is not.

Quote:
Halo 3 proudly boasted of it's active population of millions of players and no other game could come close to the success of Halo in 2001 to 2007.
I am aware of this. But Halo 5 is not to blame for the series' decline in popularity. That would be Halo 4.

Quote:
The Bungie forums were always active, and had hundreds of thousands of active posters.
Hundreds of thousands of posters? Perhaps. Active posters? I doubt that. During my time there, I saw no sign of that many people posting regularly. I'm beginning to notice a pattern here. You have a habit of using guestimate numbers, or sometimes ones that are completely made up. You can't just use some accurate numbers and then fill in the gaps with unconfirmed figures and speculation. You need confirmed facts.

Quote:
Halo's 'golden age' brought lots of Machinima directors into the universe too, so let's take a look at that.
I am aware of Machinima's popularity, being a huge fan of Arby 'n' the Chief myself. How is this relevant?

Quote:
Red VS Blue and Arby 'n' The Chief (AnTC is pretty vulgar, be advised) are arguably the best Halo Machinima of all time.
  • (First Episode) Arby 'n' The Chief - S1 E1 (Released January 7th, 2008) - "Pilot" [Link] - 7,463,291 Views
  • (Recent Episode) Arby 'n' The Chief - S8 E4 (Released April 6th, 2016) - "Bad Dream" [Link] - 20,009 Views, DOWN 7,443,282
  • (First Episode) Red VS Blue - S1 E1 (Released June 3rd, 2008) - "Why Are We Here?" [Link] - 8,072,426 Views
  • (Recent Episode) Red VS Blue - S13 E20 (Released October 19th, 2015) - "The End" [Link] - 844,086 Views, DOWN 7,228,340
According to two of Halo's most popular Machinimas, Halo's fanbase has gone down an estimated SEVEN MILLION FANS.
Please tell me you're not serious. You cannot just take the difference in views between the oldest and newest videos and say state it as a decrease. The first episode of Arby and Chief was released eight years before the most recent one. It has been accumulating views for nearly a decade versus a couple of months for the newest. Of course it has more views! Not to mention season eight is on his own lesser-known channel as opposed to Machinima itself.

Quote:
Now, let's look at Halo's overall sales since Combat Evolved.
  • 2001 - Halo: Combat Evolved - 5.5 Million
  • 2004 - Halo 2 - 8.2 Million
  • 2007 - Halo 3 - 12.06 Million
  • 2009 - Halo Wars - 2.54 Million
  • 2009 - Halo 3: ODST - 6.32 Million
  • 2010 - Halo: Reach - 9.76 Million
  • 2011 - Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary - 2.37 Million
  • 2012 - Halo 4 - 9.52 Million (343's first Halo game.)
  • 2014 - Halo: The Master Chief Collection - 2.61 Million (Down 27% from their previous game.)
  • 2015 - Halo 5 - 1 Million... WORST SELLING HALO GAME OF ALL TIME! SALES DOWN NEARLY 10% MORE!
According to this Waypointer, Halo 5's population, at its highest, could be 42,488 ACTIVE PLAYERS, which is absolutely pathetic compared the earlier titles.
Once again, you are comparing products with varying advantages in years over each other. You cannot compare all time sales fairly between a game that has been out for 7 years versus 7 months. Honestly, this is common sense. But lets backtrack a little. Halo 5's unit sales have never been released by 343. Therefore you cannot use any such number as an accurate figure. One million is mathematically impossible compared to the game's profit. And as I've stated above, you are contradicting yourself by saying the list mentioned up there is by sales, yet also claiming MCC had more sales.

Quote:
It's an absolute fact that Halo 5 is not only the worst selling Halo of all time, but it's safe to say it has the lowest population post-launch.
Both of those statements are absolutely false. Halo 4 had the lowest post-launch population, and there is confirmed data to support this claim. The only data we have on Halo 5 is that it broke week one sales records of all previous games in the series. Nothing you've stated thus far supports your claim about Halo 5's population.
Halo 5 broke all previous sales records by including the limited edition items in the sales and not purely copies of the game sold. Very important piece you left out there.
Even if everybody who bought Halo 5 bought the five hundred dollar Xbox One bundle (most expensive edition), the game would still have sold eight hundred thousand units at least. And of course, there is absolutely no way that everybody bought the console edition.

And I could leave out a lot more, his argument still proves itself wrong.
KaneXX12 wrote:
Benti86 wrote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
Halo's population is so low it's not even funny. Why? Because Halo has strayed too far from its original formula and it's now something else entirety. If Halo 6 keeps up with the micro-transactions, useless and unoriginal Spartan Abilities, botched advertising and development, its population will go down even farther. Halo's population was in the MILLIONS with Halo 3, but is only around TEN THOUSAND with Halo 5... really think that Halo can survive for much longer with 343 destroying everything that Halo was and ever stood for?
Don't think so.
Fallacy one: Halo currently sits at number 9 in the top ten most popular games, and frequently climbs the list.
Fallacy two: Most people find games incredibly quick still. Far quicker than if there were only ten thousand.
Fallacy three: The exact population of the game is not known and cannot be known as there is no population counter.

Consider your argument debunked.
Well, since there is no way to know Halo 5's actual population, we can infer several things. Halo 2, Halo 3, Reach, and Halo 4 showed active multiplayer population counters. Since the MCC and Halo 5 do not, I'd say either 343 is lazy and just doesn't want to do the extra work to make a public population display, or they know the populations of their current games are most likely despicably low and would be humiliating to show. Both are likely assumptions.
The most likely reason for the counter's discontinuation is Halo 4's sharp decline in population, not MCC or Halo 5, which came after the fact. There is also the speed at which Halo 5 makes matches to consider. And my point about the population counter was addressed to your claim. As the statistics aren't public, the only place you could have gotten that ten thousand figure is a guess.

Quote:
Like you said, Halo 5 is currently ranked as number nine on Xbox One's Most Popular (Most Bought) Games, NOT TOP PLAYED, TOP PURCHASED.
Where on the site does it say this? As long as I've used that list as a reference, I've never seen it specify either. But there are other factors. For one thing, the list would not fluctuate so frequently if it were based on most bought. You've also created another fallacy. You say here that the list is of games most bought, and below you claim that MCC had more sales than Halo 5. If that were true, wouldn't it be higher on the list than Halo 5? Last I checked, it is not.

Quote:
Halo 3 proudly boasted of it's active population of millions of players and no other game could come close to the success of Halo in 2001 to 2007.
I am aware of this. But Halo 5 is not to blame for the series' decline in popularity. That would be Halo 4.

Quote:
The Bungie forums were always active, and had hundreds of thousands of active posters.
Hundreds of thousands of posters? Perhaps. Active posters? I doubt that. During my time there, I saw no sign of that many people posting regularly. I'm beginning to notice a pattern here. You have a habit of using guestimate numbers, or sometimes ones that are completely made up. You can't just use some accurate numbers and then fill in the gaps with unconfirmed figures and speculation. You need confirmed facts.

Quote:
Halo's 'golden age' brought lots of Machinima directors into the universe too, so let's take a look at that.
I am aware of Machinima's popularity, being a huge fan of Arby 'n' the Chief myself. How is this relevant?

Quote:
Red VS Blue and Arby 'n' The Chief (AnTC is pretty vulgar, be advised) are arguably the best Halo Machinima of all time.
  • (First Episode) Arby 'n' The Chief - S1 E1 (Released January 7th, 2008) - "Pilot" [Link] - 7,463,291 Views
  • (Recent Episode) Arby 'n' The Chief - S8 E4 (Released April 6th, 2016) - "Bad Dream" [Link] - 20,009 Views, DOWN 7,443,282
  • (First Episode) Red VS Blue - S1 E1 (Released June 3rd, 2008) - "Why Are We Here?" [Link] - 8,072,426 Views
  • (Recent Episode) Red VS Blue - S13 E20 (Released October 19th, 2015) - "The End" [Link] - 844,086 Views, DOWN 7,228,340
According to two of Halo's most popular Machinimas, Halo's fanbase has gone down an estimated SEVEN MILLION FANS.
Please tell me you're not serious. You cannot just take the difference in views between the oldest and newest videos and say state it as a decrease. The first episode of Arby and Chief was released eight years before the most recent one. It has been accumulating views for nearly a decade versus a couple of months for the newest. Of course it has more views! Not to mention season eight is on his own lesser-known channel as opposed to Machinima itself.

Quote:
Now, let's look at Halo's overall sales since Combat Evolved.
  • 2001 - Halo: Combat Evolved - 5.5 Million
  • 2004 - Halo 2 - 8.2 Million
  • 2007 - Halo 3 - 12.06 Million
  • 2009 - Halo Wars - 2.54 Million
  • 2009 - Halo 3: ODST - 6.32 Million
  • 2010 - Halo: Reach - 9.76 Million
  • 2011 - Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary - 2.37 Million
  • 2012 - Halo 4 - 9.52 Million (343's first Halo game.)
  • 2014 - Halo: The Master Chief Collection - 2.61 Million (Down 27% from their previous game.)
  • 2015 - Halo 5 - 1 Million... WORST SELLING HALO GAME OF ALL TIME! SALES DOWN NEARLY 10% MORE!
According to this Waypointer, Halo 5's population, at its highest, could be 42,488 ACTIVE PLAYERS, which is absolutely pathetic compared the earlier titles.
Once again, you are comparing products with varying advantages in years over each other. You cannot compare all time sales fairly between a game that has been out for 7 years versus 7 months. Honestly, this is common sense. But lets backtrack a little. Halo 5's unit sales have never been released by 343. Therefore you cannot use any such number as an accurate figure. One million is mathematically impossible compared to the game's profit. And as I've stated above, you are contradicting yourself by saying the list mentioned up there is by sales, yet also claiming MCC had more sales.

Quote:
It's an absolute fact that Halo 5 is not only the worst selling Halo of all time, but it's safe to say it has the lowest population post-launch.
Both of those statements are absolutely false. Halo 4 had the lowest post-launch population, and there is confirmed data to support this claim. The only data we have on Halo 5 is that it broke week one sales records of all previous games in the series. Nothing you've stated thus far supports your claim about Halo 5's population.
Halo 5 broke all previous sales records by including the limited edition items in the sales and not purely copies of the game sold. Very important piece you left out there.
Even if everybody who bought Halo 5 bought the five hundred dollar Xbox One bundle (most expensive edition), the game would still have sold eight hundred thousand units at least. And of course, there is absolutely no way that everybody bought the console edition.

And I could leave out a lot more, his argument still proves itself wrong.
I'm not saying it isn't, but the fact that they needed to include those statistics and haven't mentioned anything else makes it fairly safe to assume that Halo 5 hasn't surpassed the more recent Halos in sales with a larger install base and increasingly large marketing budgets. They're getting diminished returns here and the lack of transparency only serves to solidify outside views on the matter.
KaneXX12 wrote:
Halo's population is so low it's not even funny. Why? Because Halo has strayed too far from its original formula and it's now something else entirety. If Halo 6 keeps up with the micro-transactions, useless and unoriginal Spartan Abilities, botched advertising and development, its population will go down even farther. Halo's population was in the MILLIONS with Halo 3, but is only around TEN THOUSAND with Halo 5... really think that Halo can survive for much longer with 343 destroying everything that Halo was and ever stood for?
Don't think so.
Actually, Halo 3's population was huge, but now all those people are mostly grown and don't play half as much. It"s a new generation buddy, and all this little kids are playing things like COD and -Yoink- like that. Also, the was back when Xbox was far more popular that Plastation, but now everyone's buying the PS4, which as we all know, doesn't have Halo 5. So yea, no -Yoink- the population is lower.
You know, the average age of gamers is something like 31 years old, right? Meaning, the demographic that should be getting catered to is the OG DooM, Quake, and Halo guys. Not the upstart millennials who want CowaDoody 23: Modern Black Infinite Advanced Warfare Ops Ghosts with Dog AI 3.
Totally not a generalization of us people born in the 2000's.
I'm allowed to do that, I'm a millennial.

I can even give you my millennial card if you want to inspect it and make sure it is still valid, officer. /sarcasm
I don't care what you say, but either way, you are just saying that all of us are whiny brats "WU NEDS MI COD" when in fact many here are not, simple as that, I am not asking for any certification, no need to act smart about it. I am just stating my observation. Then again, should I give you a gold medal?
Our generation is a bunch of selfish self entitled whining little tyrants that buy into everything the establishment shoves down our throats while begging for more brainwashing and for more extremes to satisfy our brainless ideals and fads. We are the greatest disgrace within the last 1000 years yet striving to be great heroes and have our names remembered through out history yet we can't get our heads out of the sand to see that all our social justice bull is exactly what the establishment wants us to focus on. We are literally slaves to the establishment and doing the exact things they want. By fighting for individual freedom we end up establishing the foundations to our enslavement. Our generation sucks.
This is a forum for a video game, so take it down a notch. If you want to rant about retrograde new-age attitudes, then I recommend you and your conspiracy crap visit the Youtube comments section instead.
I have every right to gripe if it effects me directly and destroys the things I love. In this case Social Justice Ideals are effecting Halo. 343 could do with a good cleansing of all recent university students. We want a game not a propaganda tool to further ones ideals.
What? Dude, chill out... This is a video game we are talking about, we don't need to get into the ideologies of this or past generations. I truth, the new generation is causing little things, newer people may also have great ideas you have not seen yet, you can't judge someone for being born later then others.
I'm still on point. I'm addressing the topic of younger generation that plays Halo or in the case I was giving a remark towards my generation. I'm chill... Why are you feeling threatened? Hope what I said isn't "triggering" you ;)

The point I'm making which seems to elude you is that some of the undertones or sorta hidden signs that Halo is being made by my generation is the seemingly lazy Aproach to DLC updates and how everything is skinned. Unfortunately allot of new fanboys fresh off the CoD/Titanfall train prove that our generation sucks as they have no clue as to a great game and that they all average around the 15-21 mark.

If you want to create a great game than hire on hard working humbled conservatives. I'm serious. The future of Halo depends on having humbled hard workers that strive to make quality and follow through with what fans gravitate to.

Clearly Fans including myself seek hardworking developers. With Halo 5 it only reflects laziness with all the skins.
I am technically a "Millenial" and I do not like the new trends popping up, which includes the great divergence Halo 5 made from the originals.
"Hard workers" can be of this generation as well.
KaneXX12 wrote:
Halo's population is so low it's not even funny. Why? Because Halo has strayed too far from its original formula and it's now something else entirety. If Halo 6 keeps up with the micro-transactions, useless and unoriginal Spartan Abilities, botched advertising and development, its population will go down even farther. Halo's population was in the MILLIONS with Halo 3, but is only around TEN THOUSAND with Halo 5... really think that Halo can survive for much longer with 343 destroying everything that Halo was and ever stood for?
Don't think so.
Actually, Halo 3's population was huge, but now all those people are mostly grown and don't play half as much. It"s a new generation buddy, and all this little kids are playing things like COD and -Yoink- like that. Also, the was back when Xbox was far more popular that Plastation, but now everyone's buying the PS4, which as we all know, doesn't have Halo 5. So yea, no -Yoink- the population is lower.
You know, the average age of gamers is something like 31 years old, right? Meaning, the demographic that should be getting catered to is the OG DooM, Quake, and Halo guys. Not the upstart millennials who want CowaDoody 23: Modern Black Infinite Advanced Warfare Ops Ghosts with Dog AI 3.
Totally not a generalization of us people born in the 2000's.
I'm allowed to do that, I'm a millennial.

I can even give you my millennial card if you want to inspect it and make sure it is still valid, officer. /sarcasm
I don't care what you say, but either way, you are just saying that all of us are whiny brats "WU NEDS MI COD" when in fact many here are not, simple as that, I am not asking for any certification, no need to act smart about it. I am just stating my observation. Then again, should I give you a gold medal?
Our generation is a bunch of selfish self entitled whining little tyrants that buy into everything the establishment shoves down our throats while begging for more brainwashing and for more extremes to satisfy our brainless ideals and fads. We are the greatest disgrace within the last 1000 years yet striving to be great heroes and have our names remembered through out history yet we can't get our heads out of the sand to see that all our social justice bull is exactly what the establishment wants us to focus on. We are literally slaves to the establishment and doing the exact things they want. By fighting for individual freedom we end up establishing the foundations to our enslavement. Our generation sucks.
This is a forum for a video game, so take it down a notch. If you want to rant about retrograde new-age attitudes, then I recommend you and your conspiracy crap visit the Youtube comments section instead.
I have every right to gripe if it effects me directly and destroys the things I love. In this case Social Justice Ideals are effecting Halo. 343 could do with a good cleansing of all recent university students. We want a game not a propaganda tool to further ones ideals.
What? Dude, chill out... This is a video game we are talking about, we don't need to get into the ideologies of this or past generations. I truth, the new generation is causing little things, newer people may also have great ideas you have not seen yet, you can't judge someone for being born later then others.
I'm still on point. I'm addressing the topic of younger generation that plays Halo or in the case I was giving a remark towards my generation. I'm chill... Why are you feeling threatened? Hope what I said isn't "triggering" you ;)

The point I'm making which seems to elude you is that some of the undertones or sorta hidden signs that Halo is being made by my generation is the seemingly lazy Aproach to DLC updates and how everything is skinned. Unfortunately allot of new fanboys fresh off the CoD/Titanfall train prove that our generation sucks as they have no clue as to a great game and that they all average around the 15-21 mark.

If you want to create a great game than hire on hard working humbled conservatives. I'm serious. The future of Halo depends on having humbled hard workers that strive to make quality and follow through with what fans gravitate to.

Clearly Fans including myself seek hardworking developers. With Halo 5 it only reflects laziness with all the skins.
I am technically a "Millenial" and I do not like the new trends popping up, which includes the great divergence Halo 5 made from the originals.
"Hard workers" can be of this generation as well.
I'm a milennial as well. It really depends on what games you played growing up. A lot of kids I know enjoy the twitch shooters since they all played CoD in Middle and High School. I grew up playing Halo with some friends and we all like classic Halo more.
Benti86 wrote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
Halo's population is so low it's not even funny. Why? Because Halo has strayed too far from its original formula and it's now something else entirety. If Halo 6 keeps up with the micro-transactions, useless and unoriginal Spartan Abilities, botched advertising and development, its population will go down even farther. Halo's population was in the MILLIONS with Halo 3, but is only around TEN THOUSAND with Halo 5... really think that Halo can survive for much longer with 343 destroying everything that Halo was and ever stood for?
Don't think so.
Actually, Halo 3's population was huge, but now all those people are mostly grown and don't play half as much. It"s a new generation buddy, and all this little kids are playing things like COD and -Yoink- like that. Also, the was back when Xbox was far more popular that Plastation, but now everyone's buying the PS4, which as we all know, doesn't have Halo 5. So yea, no -Yoink- the population is lower.
You know, the average age of gamers is something like 31 years old, right? Meaning, the demographic that should be getting catered to is the OG DooM, Quake, and Halo guys. Not the upstart millennials who want CowaDoody 23: Modern Black Infinite Advanced Warfare Ops Ghosts with Dog AI 3.
Totally not a generalization of us people born in the 2000's.
I'm allowed to do that, I'm a millennial.

I can even give you my millennial card if you want to inspect it and make sure it is still valid, officer. /sarcasm
I don't care what you say, but either way, you are just saying that all of us are whiny brats "WU NEDS MI COD" when in fact many here are not, simple as that, I am not asking for any certification, no need to act smart about it. I am just stating my observation. Then again, should I give you a gold medal?
Our generation is a bunch of selfish self entitled whining little tyrants that buy into everything the establishment shoves down our throats while begging for more brainwashing and for more extremes to satisfy our brainless ideals and fads. We are the greatest disgrace within the last 1000 years yet striving to be great heroes and have our names remembered through out history yet we can't get our heads out of the sand to see that all our social justice bull is exactly what the establishment wants us to focus on. We are literally slaves to the establishment and doing the exact things they want. By fighting for individual freedom we end up establishing the foundations to our enslavement. Our generation sucks.
This is a forum for a video game, so take it down a notch. If you want to rant about retrograde new-age attitudes, then I recommend you and your conspiracy crap visit the Youtube comments section instead.
I have every right to gripe if it effects me directly and destroys the things I love. In this case Social Justice Ideals are effecting Halo. 343 could do with a good cleansing of all recent university students. We want a game not a propaganda tool to further ones ideals.
What? Dude, chill out... This is a video game we are talking about, we don't need to get into the ideologies of this or past generations. I truth, the new generation is causing little things, newer people may also have great ideas you have not seen yet, you can't judge someone for being born later then others.
I'm still on point. I'm addressing the topic of younger generation that plays Halo or in the case I was giving a remark towards my generation. I'm chill... Why are you feeling threatened? Hope what I said isn't "triggering" you ;)

The point I'm making which seems to elude you is that some of the undertones or sorta hidden signs that Halo is being made by my generation is the seemingly lazy Aproach to DLC updates and how everything is skinned. Unfortunately allot of new fanboys fresh off the CoD/Titanfall train prove that our generation sucks as they have no clue as to a great game and that they all average around the 15-21 mark.

If you want to create a great game than hire on hard working humbled conservatives. I'm serious. The future of Halo depends on having humbled hard workers that strive to make quality and follow through with what fans gravitate to.

Clearly Fans including myself seek hardworking developers. With Halo 5 it only reflects laziness with all the skins.
I am technically a "Millenial" and I do not like the new trends popping up, which includes the great divergence Halo 5 made from the originals.
"Hard workers" can be of this generation as well.
I'm a milennial as well. It really depends on what games you played growing up. A lot of kids I know enjoy the twitch shooters since they all played CoD in Middle and High School. I grew up playing Halo with some friends and we all like classic Halo more.
Ditto, grew up on CE and 2. didn't have my own 360 until Reach came out....and I played the crap out of Reach.
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