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[Locked] Halo 6 Doesn't Need To Return To The Roots...

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Benti86 wrote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
Benti86 wrote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
Halo's population is so low it's not even funny. Why? Because Halo has strayed too far from its original formula and it's now something else entirety. If Halo 6 keeps up with the micro-transactions, useless and unoriginal Spartan Abilities, botched advertising and development, its population will go down even farther. Halo's population was in the MILLIONS with Halo 3, but is only around TEN THOUSAND with Halo 5... really think that Halo can survive for much longer with 343 destroying everything that Halo was and ever stood for?
Don't think so.
Fallacy one: Halo currently sits at number 9 in the top ten most popular games, and frequently climbs the list.
Fallacy two: Most people find games incredibly quick still. Far quicker than if there were only ten thousand.
Fallacy three: The exact population of the game is not known and cannot be known as there is no population counter.

Consider your argument debunked.
Well, since there is no way to know Halo 5's actual population, we can infer several things. Halo 2, Halo 3, Reach, and Halo 4 showed active multiplayer population counters. Since the MCC and Halo 5 do not, I'd say either 343 is lazy and just doesn't want to do the extra work to make a public population display, or they know the populations of their current games are most likely despicably low and would be humiliating to show. Both are likely assumptions.
The most likely reason for the counter's discontinuation is Halo 4's sharp decline in population, not MCC or Halo 5, which came after the fact. There is also the speed at which Halo 5 makes matches to consider. And my point about the population counter was addressed to your claim. As the statistics aren't public, the only place you could have gotten that ten thousand figure is a guess.

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Like you said, Halo 5 is currently ranked as number nine on Xbox One's Most Popular (Most Bought) Games, NOT TOP PLAYED, TOP PURCHASED.
Where on the site does it say this? As long as I've used that list as a reference, I've never seen it specify either. But there are other factors. For one thing, the list would not fluctuate so frequently if it were based on most bought. You've also created another fallacy. You say here that the list is of games most bought, and below you claim that MCC had more sales than Halo 5. If that were true, wouldn't it be higher on the list than Halo 5? Last I checked, it is not.

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Halo 3 proudly boasted of it's active population of millions of players and no other game could come close to the success of Halo in 2001 to 2007.
I am aware of this. But Halo 5 is not to blame for the series' decline in popularity. That would be Halo 4.

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The Bungie forums were always active, and had hundreds of thousands of active posters.
Hundreds of thousands of posters? Perhaps. Active posters? I doubt that. During my time there, I saw no sign of that many people posting regularly. I'm beginning to notice a pattern here. You have a habit of using guestimate numbers, or sometimes ones that are completely made up. You can't just use some accurate numbers and then fill in the gaps with unconfirmed figures and speculation. You need confirmed facts.

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Halo's 'golden age' brought lots of Machinima directors into the universe too, so let's take a look at that.
I am aware of Machinima's popularity, being a huge fan of Arby 'n' the Chief myself. How is this relevant?

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Red VS Blue and Arby 'n' The Chief (AnTC is pretty vulgar, be advised) are arguably the best Halo Machinima of all time.
  • (First Episode) Arby 'n' The Chief - S1 E1 (Released January 7th, 2008) - "Pilot" [Link] - 7,463,291 Views
  • (Recent Episode) Arby 'n' The Chief - S8 E4 (Released April 6th, 2016) - "Bad Dream" [Link] - 20,009 Views, DOWN 7,443,282
  • (First Episode) Red VS Blue - S1 E1 (Released June 3rd, 2008) - "Why Are We Here?" [Link] - 8,072,426 Views
  • (Recent Episode) Red VS Blue - S13 E20 (Released October 19th, 2015) - "The End" [Link] - 844,086 Views, DOWN 7,228,340
According to two of Halo's most popular Machinimas, Halo's fanbase has gone down an estimated SEVEN MILLION FANS.
Please tell me you're not serious. You cannot just take the difference in views between the oldest and newest videos and say state it as a decrease. The first episode of Arby and Chief was released eight years before the most recent one. It has been accumulating views for nearly a decade versus a couple of months for the newest. Of course it has more views! Not to mention season eight is on his own lesser-known channel as opposed to Machinima itself.

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Now, let's look at Halo's overall sales since Combat Evolved.
  • 2001 - Halo: Combat Evolved - 5.5 Million
  • 2004 - Halo 2 - 8.2 Million
  • 2007 - Halo 3 - 12.06 Million
  • 2009 - Halo Wars - 2.54 Million
  • 2009 - Halo 3: ODST - 6.32 Million
  • 2010 - Halo: Reach - 9.76 Million
  • 2011 - Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary - 2.37 Million
  • 2012 - Halo 4 - 9.52 Million (343's first Halo game.)
  • 2014 - Halo: The Master Chief Collection - 2.61 Million (Down 27% from their previous game.)
  • 2015 - Halo 5 - 1 Million... WORST SELLING HALO GAME OF ALL TIME! SALES DOWN NEARLY 10% MORE!
According to this Waypointer, Halo 5's population, at its highest, could be 42,488 ACTIVE PLAYERS, which is absolutely pathetic compared the earlier titles.
Once again, you are comparing products with varying advantages in years over each other. You cannot compare all time sales fairly between a game that has been out for 7 years versus 7 months. Honestly, this is common sense. But lets backtrack a little. Halo 5's unit sales have never been released by 343. Therefore you cannot use any such number as an accurate figure. One million is mathematically impossible compared to the game's profit. And as I've stated above, you are contradicting yourself by saying the list mentioned up there is by sales, yet also claiming MCC had more sales.

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It's an absolute fact that Halo 5 is not only the worst selling Halo of all time, but it's safe to say it has the lowest population post-launch.
Both of those statements are absolutely false. Halo 4 had the lowest post-launch population, and there is confirmed data to support this claim. The only data we have on Halo 5 is that it broke week one sales records of all previous games in the series. Nothing you've stated thus far supports your claim about Halo 5's population.
Halo 5 broke all previous sales records by including the limited edition items in the sales and not purely copies of the game sold. Very important piece you left out there.
Even if everybody who bought Halo 5 bought the five hundred dollar Xbox One bundle (most expensive edition), the game would still have sold eight hundred thousand units at least. And of course, there is absolutely no way that everybody bought the console edition.

And I could leave out a lot more, his argument still proves itself wrong.
I'm not saying it isn't, but the fact that they needed to include those statistics and haven't mentioned anything else makes it fairly safe to assume that Halo 5 hasn't surpassed the more recent Halos in sales with a larger install base and increasingly large marketing budgets. They're getting diminished returns here and the lack of transparency only serves to solidify outside views on the matter.
A fair point, but it is still only speculation.
Benti86 wrote:
KaneXX12 wrote:
Halo's population is so low it's not even funny. Why? Because Halo has strayed too far from its original formula and it's now something else entirety. If Halo 6 keeps up with the micro-transactions, useless and unoriginal Spartan Abilities, botched advertising and development, its population will go down even farther. Halo's population was in the MILLIONS with Halo 3, but is only around TEN THOUSAND with Halo 5... really think that Halo can survive for much longer with 343 destroying everything that Halo was and ever stood for?
Don't think so.
Actually, Halo 3's population was huge, but now all those people are mostly grown and don't play half as much. It"s a new generation buddy, and all this little kids are playing things like COD and -Yoink- like that. Also, the was back when Xbox was far more popular that Plastation, but now everyone's buying the PS4, which as we all know, doesn't have Halo 5. So yea, no -Yoink- the population is lower.
You know, the average age of gamers is something like 31 years old, right? Meaning, the demographic that should be getting catered to is the OG DooM, Quake, and Halo guys. Not the upstart millennials who want CowaDoody 23: Modern Black Infinite Advanced Warfare Ops Ghosts with Dog AI 3.
Totally not a generalization of us people born in the 2000's.
I'm allowed to do that, I'm a millennial.

I can even give you my millennial card if you want to inspect it and make sure it is still valid, officer. /sarcasm
I don't care what you say, but either way, you are just saying that all of us are whiny brats "WU NEDS MI COD" when in fact many here are not, simple as that, I am not asking for any certification, no need to act smart about it. I am just stating my observation. Then again, should I give you a gold medal?
Our generation is a bunch of selfish self entitled whining little tyrants that buy into everything the establishment shoves down our throats while begging for more brainwashing and for more extremes to satisfy our brainless ideals and fads. We are the greatest disgrace within the last 1000 years yet striving to be great heroes and have our names remembered through out history yet we can't get our heads out of the sand to see that all our social justice bull is exactly what the establishment wants us to focus on. We are literally slaves to the establishment and doing the exact things they want. By fighting for individual freedom we end up establishing the foundations to our enslavement. Our generation sucks.
This is a forum for a video game, so take it down a notch. If you want to rant about retrograde new-age attitudes, then I recommend you and your conspiracy crap visit the Youtube comments section instead.
I have every right to gripe if it effects me directly and destroys the things I love. In this case Social Justice Ideals are effecting Halo. 343 could do with a good cleansing of all recent university students. We want a game not a propaganda tool to further ones ideals.
What? Dude, chill out... This is a video game we are talking about, we don't need to get into the ideologies of this or past generations. I truth, the new generation is causing little things, newer people may also have great ideas you have not seen yet, you can't judge someone for being born later then others.
I'm still on point. I'm addressing the topic of younger generation that plays Halo or in the case I was giving a remark towards my generation. I'm chill... Why are you feeling threatened? Hope what I said isn't "triggering" you ;)

The point I'm making which seems to elude you is that some of the undertones or sorta hidden signs that Halo is being made by my generation is the seemingly lazy Aproach to DLC updates and how everything is skinned. Unfortunately allot of new fanboys fresh off the CoD/Titanfall train prove that our generation sucks as they have no clue as to a great game and that they all average around the 15-21 mark.

If you want to create a great game than hire on hard working humbled conservatives. I'm serious. The future of Halo depends on having humbled hard workers that strive to make quality and follow through with what fans gravitate to.

Clearly Fans including myself seek hardworking developers. With Halo 5 it only reflects laziness with all the skins.
I am technically a "Millenial" and I do not like the new trends popping up, which includes the great divergence Halo 5 made from the originals.
"Hard workers" can be of this generation as well.
I'm a milennial as well. It really depends on what games you played growing up. A lot of kids I know enjoy the twitch shooters since they all played CoD in Middle and High School. I grew up playing Halo with some friends and we all like classic Halo more.
Yep, I grew up with Halo as well. Would play with my brother but also watched him and his best friend at the time play together. I did play some CoD, too, but that was back when they still were WWII-related, and not as "fast" as now.
The issue with any game scrapping its "roots" is you lose the original fanbase that made the game to begin with. The arguement is halo 1-3 were so massive in players and popularity, that when h reach and after started changing things, halo has then lost its roots and parts of that original fan base. You admitted how h4 was your first game so you wasn't there to see how things were in halos golden days, mcc was just a way to remember those days but it would've never been the same. The concept is to make the new games play like the older games to bring back at least some of that fan base rather than continuously alienating it. I myself like the newer halo games but I can't deny that a lot has changed since when I played the originals from the start. You really don't see people say that h4, h5, reach aren't fun, you see them argue that it's not "halo fun". Changes to a franchise do change what they are, if CoD were to ever add shields, power weapons on maps, remove sprint, you'd know what I mean by change hurting a games original concept. It can still be fun, but it won't be what it used to be (and truth be told I'd lol at what CoD players would think/do if what I mentioned happened). So again, no ones saying halo isn't fun, most will say it's not "halo fun".

My my personal opinion on halo as of now is it's going in the right direction but slowly. H4 was a fun game, but it had load outs, ordnances, abundance of armour abilities, sprint (don't mind sprint necessarily but just how they had sprint function in h4) all made me dislike it being in "halo". H5 has fixed many of those issues but it's also continued on some of them that many have wanted gone for years now. However, I think it adding in equal starts and dumbing down the abilities have made it more halo to me since h3. It still has a ways to go but I can tolerate it.
Utter, undeniable truth. I've played Halo since 2007 when I was a small child. The fact that people think Halo should ignore its roots and move on (especially people whose first Halo beat 100% was fuggin Halo 4) is stupid. We all see the CoD outrage over their stupid space mechanics, we see Doom being raped critically initially for leaving its roots a bit (even just a bit) and we see Total War's shady BS getting them a taste of -Yoink- without lube from there former fans... and who do we see on top? Oh! What's this? Battlefield? LISTENING to their fans? How idiotic! Surely the game will fail! They are doing a stupid thing! They are listening to there original fans who really wanted them to return to their World War roots! BF1 will be a financial disaster! Halo will succeed with flying colors because they are another cookie-cutter space shooter trying to be like CoD because MONEY! The point of making video games has always been MONEY! That's all Nintendo wanted when they made Mario, not enjoyment from the whole family! That's what Bungie wanted when they made Halo 3. You see the money they got from that? Yeah, they did it just for the money! Not for the massive fanbase they have**! (**had)
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we see Doom being -Yoinked- critically initially for leaving its roots a bit (even just a bit)
Doom is an example of your point, but best used in the opposite direction: keeping to their roots made it critically lauded.

Also, that verb will get you in trouble.
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