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[Locked] Halo 6 Doesn't Need To Return To The Roots...

OP FLOWFUTURISTIC

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I think that looking back is exactly what 343i need to do when designing Halo 6. Both 4 and 5 are failures in their own way. Both did some things well enough, but most of each was just horrible.

You are right, Halo 5 is lacking the fun factor that all of the other games in the series had. I don't think that it's related to the armor system though. At their core, these games were all fun. Before Reach there were no challenges or complex armor systems and unlocks. Halo 2 and 3 are probably the two best games in the series and neither of them have any of that. Those games were just fun to play. Gameplay is the most important. Reach sucked because things like Bloom and Armor abilities. Halo 4 sucked because of loadouts and Armor Abilities. Halo 5 sucks because of Spartan Abilities and lack of content.

Armor Abilities/Spartan Abilities both suck for the same reason. They impact the game in a way that makes it frustrating to play against people that use them. It's not about balance. It's not about evenness. It's about frustration. Everyone in the game could have a Jetpack, it wouldn't make it any less frustrating when people break map flow. Everyone could have Armor Lock, it wouldn't make it any less frustrating when they use their get out of jail free card in the middle of battle. Everyone could have sprint/thruster/evade and it doesn't make it any less frustrating when people run away and escape from a fight they should not have.

In order to make the games get that fun factor back they have to stop making abilities that are not fun to fight against. Most of the equipment in Halo 3 is a good example of this. As are the Hologram from Reach and 4 and clambering and ground pound from 5. I don't mind smart scope either.

My ideal Halo game is basically Halo 2 anniversary, with equipment (including hologram in there somehow), with clamber and ground pound and smart scope, and with some double jumping ability like from the new Doom game. I don't hate the idea of limited loadouts (only being able to pick from AR or BR. No grenade choice, no secondary choice, no equipment at spawn, and no perks), and think being able to pick between an AR and BR would solve a lot of the issues that people always have over if it should be AR starts or BR starts. I think that this game could exist, and would show the best of what Halo as a series could be.

EDIT: and if it wasn't clear, NO SPRINT.
if halo 5 was halo 2 just with clamber and sprint is a power up like overshield than alot more people would like the game. with halo 2 sized 4v4 maps (so many great maps). just you and your gun thats it. nothing more
I more or less agree with you. There are definitely good things that newer games in the series have done, but you don't need to overhall the game for every iteration. Like I said, Halo 2 Anniversary with equipment, Clamber, Ground Pound, smartscope, limited loadouts, and a double jump like feature would be awesome.

I've thought about this a lot and defiently agree with you that the speed boost powerup could be used a lot more than it ever was (think there was like one map that used it in Halo 3). Powerups were an awesome part of the early games, and I'm happy that Halo 5 brought them back into the fold. I just wish that Halo 5 was fun to play is all.
If only Ok the ground pound of i could toggle it on and off. Because there's times where I jump behind someone and go to melee but it goes into ground pound mode and I get killed.
Benti86 wrote:
Celestis wrote:
halo 4 was an abomination. halo 5 is an improvement. if doom can play like the old doom and have a tiny amount of modern features (double jump and clambering) other than that it plays like doom 1 and 3 mixed. THAT is how halo 5 should have been. guess what the new doom is a PURE arena shooter with no sprint and requires alot of strafing. i want 343 to make halo 6 like doom..... follow the original gameplay but add very LITTLE modern features and that is sticking to your roots not ignoring them or burning them with napalm. which is what halo 4 did
I agree with all your points except that H5G supposedly was an improvement. Because it wasn't. Gameplay-wise, it's worse than it's even been.

@OP: Doesn't need to return to its roots... to do what exactly? You never specify.
Sell copies? Probably not.
Sell Xboxes? Debatable.
Keep the franchise going for that 20-ish years that Bonnie Ross was claiming some years back? Yeah, it does. Badly!
the new doom is so refreshing. a game that respects its roots and embraces it. i have not had this much fun in a while. ID games are pure gold and made with love and not made to cater to get a kind of audiance that it did not have before
Played MP with my friend yesterday. Haven't had that much fun in a long, long time.
Wish I could play DOOM. Instead, I'm busy with semester finals. Why id? Why did you have to release the game that I wanted so badly during semester finals?
I think that looking back is exactly what 343i need to do when designing Halo 6. Both 4 and 5 are failures in their own way. Both did some things well enough, but most of each was just horrible.

You are right, Halo 5 is lacking the fun factor that all of the other games in the series had. I don't think that it's related to the armor system though. At their core, these games were all fun. Before Reach there were no challenges or complex armor systems and unlocks. Halo 2 and 3 are probably the two best games in the series and neither of them have any of that. Those games were just fun to play. Gameplay is the most important. Reach sucked because things like Bloom and Armor abilities. Halo 4 sucked because of loadouts and Armor Abilities. Halo 5 sucks because of Spartan Abilities and lack of content.

Armor Abilities/Spartan Abilities both suck for the same reason. They impact the game in a way that makes it frustrating to play against people that use them. It's not about balance. It's not about evenness. It's about frustration. Everyone in the game could have a Jetpack, it wouldn't make it any less frustrating when people break map flow. Everyone could have Armor Lock, it wouldn't make it any less frustrating when they use their get out of jail free card in the middle of battle. Everyone could have sprint/thruster/evade and it doesn't make it any less frustrating when people run away and escape from a fight they should not have.

In order to make the games get that fun factor back they have to stop making abilities that are not fun to fight against. Most of the equipment in Halo 3 is a good example of this. As are the Hologram from Reach and 4 and clambering and ground pound from 5. I don't mind smart scope either.

My ideal Halo game is basically Halo 2 anniversary, with equipment (including hologram in there somehow), with clamber and ground pound and smart scope, and with some double jumping ability like from the new Doom game. I don't hate the idea of limited loadouts (only being able to pick from AR or BR. No grenade choice, no secondary choice, no equipment at spawn, and no perks), and think being able to pick between an AR and BR would solve a lot of the issues that people always have over if it should be AR starts or BR starts. I think that this game could exist, and would show the best of what Halo as a series could be.

EDIT: and if it wasn't clear, NO SPRINT.
if halo 5 was halo 2 just with clamber and sprint is a power up like overshield than alot more people would like the game. with halo 2 sized 4v4 maps (so many great maps). just you and your gun thats it. nothing more
I more or less agree with you. There are definitely good things that newer games in the series have done, but you don't need to overhall the game for every iteration. Like I said, Halo 2 Anniversary with equipment, Clamber, Ground Pound, smartscope, limited loadouts, and a double jump like feature would be awesome.

I've thought about this a lot and defiently agree with you that the speed boost powerup could be used a lot more than it ever was (think there was like one map that used it in Halo 3). Powerups were an awesome part of the early games, and I'm happy that Halo 5 brought them back into the fold. I just wish that Halo 5 was fun to play is all.
If only Ok the ground pound of i could toggle it on and off. Because there's times where I jump behind someone and go to melee but it goes into ground pound mode and I get killed.
I don't see why not. It should work like assassinations do now (those should stay as well). I like the Ground Pound a lot. It might not be the most "competitive" thing in the world, but it is one of the only things that Halo 5 did that is extremely fun to do. The way that they balanced it too was perfect.
If Halo 6 continues on with Spartan Abilities, IMO that is fine... they just NEED to implement staple Halo features/modes/playlists AT LAUNCH!!!!!!

The community has begged for ranked Snipers and Doubles since Halo 5, no... HALO 4 launched... STILL we do not have them in the game!
Define success. As of now, your control group includes the most unsuccessful Halos of all time, while the "roots" are the only games that actually made money and kept population.
If Halo 6 continues on with Spartan Abilities, IMO that is fine... they just NEED to implement staple Halo features/modes/playlists AT LAUNCH!!!!!!

The community has begged for ranked Snipers and Doubles since Halo 5, no... HALO 4 launched... STILL we do not have them in the game!
No it dilutes the game and breaks the arena game it is
Nooga wrote:
You want 5 legitimate reasons as to why Halo 4 sucked:

1. It's blatant and shameless attempt at assuming the formula for other FPS games would work with Halo.

2. The lack of any competitive outlet arguably put the nail in the coffin for long time competitive fans who anxiously waited to see what Halo brought after Reach.

3. Spartan Ops replacing Firefight. Spartan ops had the potential. It failed to deliver.

4. A forgettable campaign that was made completely and utterly null and void by Halo 5. Any emotional impact the death of cortana was supposed to have was negated entirely.

5. Armor abilities like jet pack and promethean vision utterly destroying arena based multiplayer.

6. The bolt shot: the ability to spawn with a weapon more useful than the sword or shotgun was a disgusting oversight that plagued multiplayer for too long.

7. Forgettable maps: the multiplayer maps made no lasting impression on the fans. No one is crying for a remake of a halo 4 map for very good reasons.

8. The beginning of removal of series features. As their first original game, 343 showed us that removing features may become a trend. No theater in campaign and no campaign scoring were indicators of what was yet to come. As well as no playable elites, a very important feature to many.

9. Horrendous, HORRENDOUS vehicle game play. Vehicles made of paper mache made it so that no vehicle user could truly excel, no matter how skilled.

10. Horrid sound design. Listen to the Halo 4 battle rifle and Pistol. That's all I need for this argument.

11. It took a month to accomplish everything there was to accomplish in the entire game. It took next to no time.

I could go on and on. Halo 4 wasn't and isn't a bad game. But it didn't even come close to the legacy that was halo 1-3. Even reach. I didn't like the game play of Reach but it's feature set was damn impressive. Halo 4 didn't even deliver that.

You started halo with Halo 4. Yet you claim to speak of the original trilogy as though you knew it when it was revolutionary. You weren't there to witness Halo, the juggernaut of gaming, be transformed into a COD clone and shamelessly thrown around like Call of Duty in space.

Nostalgia can be a blinding influence. But there are many things objectively wrong with Halo 4. Again, it was not bad. But its down there with Reach in terms of Halo game play.
I started with CE in 2001. Halo 4 was the best Halo by a LONG mile until 5, which is clearly the superior game, came out. Halo 2 will forever be the worst entry in the series. Im only talking about multiplayer. This, of course, is my opinion.
I'm sorry, what? Multiplayer was it it's absolute worst in Halo 4. Just adding on to the list:

0: The boltshot, again. It was literally a shotgun you can spawn with. Why bother finding your own shotgun when you literally spawn with one.
1: Ordinance. There was very little reason for map control in this game. If you do reasonably well (Term used loosely, since scorestreaks carried over after death), you have a random chance of a power weapon/boost being directly given to you.

Halo 4 was the closest to a CoD clone compared to every other Halo game.
Benti86 wrote:
Celestis wrote:
halo 4 was an abomination. halo 5 is an improvement. if doom can play like the old doom and have a tiny amount of modern features (double jump and clambering) other than that it plays like doom 1 and 3 mixed. THAT is how halo 5 should have been. guess what the new doom is a PURE arena shooter with no sprint and requires alot of strafing. i want 343 to make halo 6 like doom..... follow the original gameplay but add very LITTLE modern features and that is sticking to your roots not ignoring them or burning them with napalm. which is what halo 4 did
I agree with all your points except that H5G supposedly was an improvement. Because it wasn't. Gameplay-wise, it's worse than it's even been.

@OP: Doesn't need to return to its roots... to do what exactly? You never specify.
Sell copies? Probably not.
Sell Xboxes? Debatable.
Keep the franchise going for that 20-ish years that Bonnie Ross was claiming some years back? Yeah, it does. Badly!
the new doom is so refreshing. a game that respects its roots and embraces it. i have not had this much fun in a while. ID games are pure gold and made with love and not made to cater to get a kind of audiance that it did not have before
Played MP with my friend yesterday. Haven't had that much fun in a long, long time.
Wish I could play DOOM. Instead, I'm busy with semester finals. Why id? Why did you have to release the game that I wanted so badly during semester finals?
If it makes you feel any better my school screwed me over too >.<
People keep saying Halo 4 added loadouts, armor abilites and sprint, but it was actually REACH added those things.
No roots = plenty of other franchises and genres to experiment with.
If Halo 6 continues on with Spartan Abilities, IMO that is fine... they just NEED to implement staple Halo features/modes/playlists AT LAUNCH!!!!!!

The community has begged for ranked Snipers and Doubles since Halo 5, no... HALO 4 launched... STILL we do not have them in the game!
No it dilutes the game and breaks the arena game it is
What's "it?" I don't know what you're talking about...

If you're referring to Spartan Abilities, that is your opinion... I've been with the series since CE and enjoy the added layer they bring to the combat. I can deal without Spartan Charge, at least in its current iteration, but other than that, SA's bring a new flavor to the game that I enjoy overall.

They do not detract from any Arena concepts IMO because they are standard abilities across the board... Spawning can be affected by the pace of movement, that's the only thing, but gameplay is one thing Halo 5 does exceptionally well.
No roots = plenty of other franchises and genres to experiment with.
And just another reason for me to give up on halo in general because the devs have no respect for the roots and its history
If Halo 6 continues on with Spartan Abilities, IMO that is fine... they just NEED to implement staple Halo features/modes/playlists AT LAUNCH!!!!!!

The community has begged for ranked Snipers and Doubles since Halo 5, no... HALO 4 launched... STILL we do not have them in the game!
No it dilutes the game and breaks the arena game it is
What's "it?" I don't know what you're talking about...

If you're referring to Spartan Abilities, that is your opinion... I've been with the series since CE and enjoy the added layer they bring to the combat. I can deal without Spartan Charge, at least in its current iteration, but other than that, SA's bring a new flavor to the game that I enjoy overall.

They do not detract from any Arena concepts IMO because they are standard abilities across the board... Spawning can be affected by the pace of movement, that's the only thing, but gameplay is one thing Halo 5 does exceptionally well.
Spartan charge is just nooby.
No roots = plenty of other franchises and genres to experiment with.
Then at that point it should be a spin-off and not a Halo game if even the same IP. That's like saying make a mode in Dark Souls and Devil May Cry where the game completes combos for you and you're invulnerable. It doesn't match up to what the previous games set up. It's like turning the avengers into a soap opera. Do you even realize what the point of a sequel is? I'll give you a hint. It fleshes out what made its predecessors popular, it doesn't stray from it and give the original audience the finger.
People keep saying Halo 4 added loadouts, armor abilites and sprint, but it was actually REACH added those things.
Reach at least made static loadouts so you couldn't throw together the most OP class imaginable but yes Reach started it. That doesn't excuse Halo 4 and 343 from continuing it and making it even worse by making an overpowered DMR, pocket shotgun, and Active Camo as well as promethean vision as AA's. 343 just refused to remove those things since they want to make their own vision of Halo which, like I previously said, you don't get to do with an established franchise without pissing a lot of people off.

and what has 343 done? Exactly that.
People keep saying Halo 4 added loadouts, armor abilites and sprint, but it was actually REACH added those things.
Guess what other game "people" hate:
Spoiler:
Show
You want 5 legitimate reasons as to why Halo 4 sucked:

1. It's blatant and shameless attempt at assuming the formula for other FPS games would work with Halo.

2. The lack of any competitive outlet arguably put the nail in the coffin for long time competitive fans who anxiously waited to see what Halo brought after Reach.

3. Spartan Ops replacing Firefight. Spartan ops had the potential. It failed to deliver.

4. A forgettable campaign that was made completely and utterly null and void by Halo 5. Any emotional impact the death of cortana was supposed to have was negated entirely.

5. Armor abilities like jet pack and promethean vision utterly destroying arena based multiplayer.

6. The bolt shot: the ability to spawn with a weapon more useful than the sword or shotgun was a disgusting oversight that plagued multiplayer for too long.

7. Forgettable maps: the multiplayer maps made no lasting impression on the fans. No one is crying for a remake of a halo 4 map for very good reasons.

8. The beginning of removal of series features. As their first original game, 343 showed us that removing features may become a trend. No theater in campaign and no campaign scoring were indicators of what was yet to come. As well as no playable elites, a very important feature to many.

9. Horrendous, HORRENDOUS vehicle game play. Vehicles made of paper mache made it so that no vehicle user could truly excel, no matter how skilled.

10. Horrid sound design. Listen to the Halo 4 battle rifle and Pistol. That's all I need for this argument.

11. It took a month to accomplish everything there was to accomplish in the entire game. It took next to no time.

I could go on and on. Halo 4 wasn't and isn't a bad game. But it didn't even come close to the legacy that was halo 1-3. Even reach. I didn't like the game play of Reach but it's feature set was damn impressive. Halo 4 didn't even deliver that.

You started halo with Halo 4. Yet you claim to speak of the original trilogy as though you knew it when it was revolutionary. You weren't there to witness Halo, the juggernaut of gaming, be transformed into a COD clone and shamelessly thrown around like Call of Duty in space.

Nostalgia can be a blinding influence. But there are many things objectively wrong with Halo 4. Again, it was not bad. But its down there with Reach in terms of Halo game play.
This just about sums it up
I just hope halo doesn't try and mimic doom. That shotgun/melee fest isn't the arena experience I want for halo.
I believe that halo 6 should have a little bit of the old and new.
People seem to really overlook a certain factor. Figthing alongside marines vs fighting alongside spartans is a MAJOR difference. I personally enjoyed the marines much much more. There were more of them, so the battles felt more chaotic and over all more fun. And they also made you actually feel like a SUPER soldier. When your allies have the same exact abilities as you, you lose that feeling. Not only that, but nothing is more satisfying than putting marines to good use. Check out Hokiebird's awesome use of marines on Tsavo Highway here.

All that being said, there are definitely some positives to what Halo 5's campaign had. You could order your spartans to take certain positions and take certain weapons and prioritize targets. I really really really liked this idea. It reminds me of Rainbow Six Vegas 2. It adds a very tactical feel to Halo which wasn't really seen before.

Last but not least, we can't forget the moments where you have to take on a mission Solo. I don't believe Halo 5 had any of that. Some of Halo's most difficult moments are during the missions in which you are completely alone and have to take on the enemy.

I think a perfect Halo campaign would implement all 3 types of missions into one complete game. Yes Halo 5 had the one mission with some marines, but they don't really follow you throughout the mission so its not a very good example. We need hectic, chaotic, and overall fun as hell vehicular battle sequences with plenty of marines and your spartans all taking part. We need some tactical missions where your spartan squad has to complete challenging objectives in which you need good strategies. And we also need moments where you have to go loan wolf.

Has the atmosphere of the game changed? Of course, but I respect the change in feel as long as we still have the moments that make Halo campaigns what they truly are: the most fun fps campaigns that i actually enjoy replaying
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